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[Grakelin]

Some of the fight scenes in Transformers I were pretty good. There was an anti-climax at the end, though, similar to what happened with Iron Man 2. They have a budget, I think they need to stop being afraid to make the action scenes exciting and interesting, or at least find a better fight choreographer.

Nobody ever complained that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs. Darth Maul was a shitty lightsaber fight and the thing that made the movie bad, for instance (unless they were trolling). The movie was pretty subpar overall, but the lightsaber fight is worth watching. Revenge of the Sith was a fairly decent movie, despite all the melodrama, and the biggest let down was how lame the fight between Palpatine and Windu was (after the first minute, when all the other Jedi are dead). Luckily, this was helped back up by how great the lightsaber duels at the beginning and end were. Action movies need action. I watched 'The Hitman' starring Chuck Norris last night, and it was an awesome movie, despite having low production values, shoddy acting, and an indecipherable plot.

[G-Flex]

Nobody ever complained that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs. Darth Maul was a shitty lightsaber fight and the thing that
made the movie bad, for instance (unless they were trolling).

Somebody hasn't seen the redlettermedia review of that movie. Seriously, it was fairly heartless and flashy and didn't even make a hell of a lot of sense.

[Luke_Prowler]

I hate people who say that Michael Bay is the worst director when in reality there is a magnitude of people who suck even more, at least Michael makes a competent movie that people would want to watch. High horse elitist going to see an action flick expecting some sort of philosophical rendition of the human mind are trying to squeeze blood out of a rock.

[fenrif]

I hate people who say that Michael Bay is the worst director when in reality there is a magnitude of people who suck even more, at least Michael makes a competent movie that people would want to watch. High horse elitist going to see an action flick expecting some sort of philosophical rendition of the human mind are trying to squeeze blood out of a rock.

See the thing is... He really doesn't make a compotent movie. He isn't the worst director ever, but his directing skills are extremely sub-par.

Some of the fight scenes in Transformers I were pretty good. There was an anti-climax at the end, though, similar to what happened with Iron Man 2. They have a budget, I think they need to stop being afraid to make the action scenes exciting and interesting, or at least find a better fight choreographer.

The problem with the fight scenes is that Hollywood has decided the best way to shoot extremely violent action scenes, and still get a PG rating, is to contantly move the camera and cut every second or two to a wildly different angle. It's especially annoying in the new transformer films because the characters themselves are constantly shifting and moving, and have an ill-defined shape.

[Creaca]

Unless you have those relationships, then the movie doesn't matter. Then it's just a bunch of robots fighting each other.

No Shia! You don't understand. That's all Transformers is suppose to be. That is all I want. I don't need your painfully forced romance with Megan Fox or "Wacky Family Antics!". Just give me 90 minutes of Giant Robots kicking the shit out of each other.

[MrWiggles]

I hate people who say that Michael Bay is the worst director when in reality there is a magnitude of people who suck even more, at least Michael makes a competent movie that people would want to watch. High horse elitist going to see an action flick expecting some sort of philosophical rendition of the human mind are trying to squeeze blood out of a rock.

See the thing is... He really doesn't make a compotent movie. He isn't the worst director ever, but his directing skills are extremely sub-par.

I dont think so. Bay major issue for me is he unable to tell a story. The technical cinematography is very good. The pacing is great, the transitions are good and the scene set up are both interesting and dynamics. He can can show moments of awe in a location reveal or event reveal.

See, I dont see a Bay movie being MST3K because its terrible. Its not This Island Earth, The Horror of Spider Island, Manos: The Hands of Fate, or Werewolf ect. (Sidetrack, MST3K Wereworlf, I damn near pissed myself. )

Those

[Grakelin]

Nobody ever complained that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs. Darth Maul was a shitty lightsaber fight and the thing that
made the movie bad, for instance (unless they were trolling).

Somebody hasn't seen the redlettermedia review of that movie. Seriously, it was fairly heartless and flashy and didn't even make a hell of a lot of sense.

That review is almost as long as the movie itself, what is this nonsense.

[Euld]

Did he promise to STOP SHAKING THE GOSH DARN CAMERA?!

Only saw the first Transformers... I had to actually look away during a fight scene because it was making me sick to my stomach.  The worst part was

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

when Optimus says if he can't beat Megatron, he's gonna have to stick the All Spark into his chest to destroy it and himself.  The ensuing fight was impossible to see with that stupid shaking camera >_<

[Duke 2.0]

 Nonono, what makes the transformers action crap is the fact that you can't tell what is what. It's two heaps of mechanical barf making sparks as they whack eachother with undefined limbs and undefined torsos. Like with the Alien vs. Predator movie there was too much crap in the way of the action, either there being too much darkness, the camera too close or the camera too shaky. And the usual crap of everything happening too fast.

 You know what would work character designers? Give them all large metal plating that covers all that mechanical vomit. Then to show damage you see that stuff underneath. Thus you could see what is going on, which character is who and how much damage they have sustained.

[G-Flex]

The technical cinematography is very good. The pacing is great, the transitions are good and the scene set up are both interesting and dynamics. He can can show moments of awe in a location reveal or event reveal.

You make it sound like he's actually competent at composing a scene. If he were, he wouldn't have half the characters in it disappearing spontaneously (when it's consequential, no less) or having it switch between day and night between shots. That's amateur hour bullshit.

See, I dont see a Bay movie being MST3K because its terrible.

There actually is a Rifftrax for Transformers, and in it they accuse Michael Bay of being a toddler, among other things.

Nonono, what makes the transformers action crap is the fact that you can't tell what is what. It's two heaps of mechanical barf making sparks as they whack eachother with undefined limbs and undefined torsos.

Yes. Not only that, but in the first movie you're barely even introduced to any of them; you have hardly any reason to even care about which one is which, or why they're fighting.

[Grakelin]

The technical cinematography is very good. The pacing is great, the transitions are good and the scene set up are both interesting and dynamics. He can can show moments of awe in a location reveal or event reveal.

You make it sound like he's actually competent at composing a scene. If he were, he wouldn't have half the characters in it disappearing spontaneously (when it's consequential, no less) or having it switch between day and night between shots. That's amateur hour bullshit.

You make it sound like these are his first movies. He's been directing for 20 years. This seems to be his decline.

[Retro]

I read a great analysis of Michael Bay and his work here (http://www.avclub.com/articles/baywatch-the-hunt-for-meaning-in-the-films-of-mich,32009/). Pretty relevant to the conversation, I'd say.

Nonono, what makes the transformers action crap is the fact that you can't tell what is what. It's two heaps of mechanical barf making sparks as they whack eachother with undefined limbs and undefined torsos. Like with the Alien vs. Predator movie there was too much crap in the way of the action, either there being too much darkness, the camera too close or the camera too shaky. And the usual crap of everything happening too fast.

 You know what would work character designers? Give them all large metal plating that covers all that mechanical vomit. Then to show damage you see that stuff underneath. Thus you could see what is going on, which character is who and how much damage they have sustained.

I'm with this. I thought I was having a seizure during the second half of the first movie and the entire second movie (doesn't help that the latter was longer).

I also agree with Shia that the movies need to have human-based tension/emotion in them as well, though if he thought the first movie was a good example of this then his definition of 'human heart' in a film is 'ignoring everything but the humans'. What they need to do is A) get a handful of humans involved - let's say three. No more. B) Make the Transformers actually have plating and that crap as Duke said so people can tell the difference between them. Also taking away their mouths would make them less creepy too, IMO. C) Actually give the robots a personality and make the film about them. Let them develop subtly and don't force characterizations down the audience's throats. Having 20 robots who each pop in for a second to say one single line that describes their entire personality (ie. "I'm Ironhide, and despite being a good guy, I still get annoyed by human trivialties because I'm chaotic good!") and then pop out. Nobody gives a shit about that. It amounts to saying "Transformers is a cool guy and doesn't afraid of anything." Use a decent amount of robots that are visually different, allow their personalities to naturally develop, and include a few humans as supporting characters who serve to ground the robots' battle. If there's actually a buildup to Optimus and Megatron fighting and having the audience know that it's an important battle they'll be much more invested. Plus if the robots have characters with personalities past 'the strongest one' the final duel will automatically be way more tense.

Oh, and D) don't make any robots illiterate and jive-talkin'. Them gold grillz don't fly with no audience neitha'.

[MrWiggles]

The technical cinematography is very good. The pacing is great, the transitions are good and the scene set up are both interesting and dynamics. He can can show moments of awe in a location reveal or event reveal.

You make it sound like he's actually competent at composing a scene. If he were, he wouldn't have half the characters in it disappearing spontaneously (when it's consequential, no less) or having it switch between day and night between shots. That's amateur hour bullshit.

See, I dont see a Bay movie being MST3K because its terrible.

There actually is a Rifftrax for Transformers, and in it they accuse Michael Bay of being a toddler, among other things.

Though Rifftrax is made by the same group, its also their lively hood in part. They make one for nearly every movie that has a theatrical release. Rifftrax for myself is not a metric on a movie quality.

MST3K, is metric to me as they were force to get cheap movies and that meant bad old movies.

[fenrif]

I dont think so. Bay major issue for me is he unable to tell a story. The technical cinematography is very good. The pacing is great, the transitions are good and the scene set up are both interesting and dynamics. He can can show moments of awe in a location reveal or event reveal.

Being able to tell a story is pretty much the directors job. Everything they do is towards that goal. If you can't do that, then you aren't a good director... You may be a good cinematogropher, or a good editor or storyboarder, but not a good director.

To be honest I don't even think he's good at the techincal side of directing, as people have pointed out he makes numerous mistakes in all his films. I find his pacing terrible, if only because when a film is trying to make me feel exhilerated or highten the tension I find it extremely jarring to cut to another scene of different characters making ball jokes.

Showing a moment of awe in location or event reveals isn't really difficult, if you're talking about what I think you're talking about... It's just a case of getting the right lighting, camera angle, and music. The director isn't really responsable for any of that.

 This is the main problem I have with Bay's films: their only redeeming quality comes from the huge amounts of money that are thrown into them. Anyone can make a half-decent movie with $151,000,000 (estimated budget for transformers 1). It's extremely hard not too. You have hundreds of people involved, most of them are going to be good at their jobs, and anything that doesn't work you can throw money at. Yet Bay still manages to make awful films. With the money they are barely-legible train wrecks, without the money they'd be Uwe Boll bad.

[HideousBeing]

Shia LeBeouf Promises Better "Transformers Movie" Next Time

Are they finally taking him out of the movie?

Honestly, the humans only reason for being there is to allow people to relate to the characters better, but are they even necessary (they suck at that job anyway)? Make the transformers look more human instad of tumbling piles of scrap metal and then give them some fucking plot. In fact, a cheesy cartoon plot would be perfect and people would care alot less about the obviously glaring plot holes; maybe they have to save megan fox from megatron or something (hey... shes hot). Also, robots don't need testicles...