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[PiCroft]

I'm a sandbox player personally, and consequently I find it useful to use the "cheat" utilities so I can set myself up in an ideal place for a good fortress, or to find a feature I really want when I've already arrived.

I find it quite irritating, to the point where it discourages me from playing, to have to find, download and configure utilities such as Gibbed's DF Tweak for every new version - this wasn't such an issue a while back when there was a long stretch without updates but now that the updates are coming thick and fast, it is a real chore trying to keep up-to-date. I've yet to figure out if Gibbed's DF Tweak even works with the current version and if so, how to configure it for the current release.

It would be nice to include, perhaps in the pause menu, a means of revealing the map automatically without having to use an external tool, activating magma buildings and tower-cap growth as well. It would also be nice to include the embark stats and setup in a file, so I can configure number of starting dwarfs, embark points etc without having to run an external tool and, if I use the d# version, having to put up with the kerfuffle of transferring saves between the raw version and the OpenGL optimised version, since Tweak didn't work with the OpenGL version.

This would mean that it wouldn't be necessary to wait or depend on someone else to come up with the solution to adapting an existing utility for every new version that comes out. It also greatly simplifies downloads, as one wouldn't need 3 or 4 different utilities running when trying to set up a fortress and avoid this save game transfer bollocks as well.

Something to think about?

[j0nas]

Yes, a cheat menu for some of the common features would be cool.  Perhaps with an added cheater bit attached to the save, meaning that any save where one used that kind of feature would be tagged as cheated, with no other effect than just being a brand of shame for the local player.  Of course a creative player could work his way around that easily, but meh, let 'em.

[The-Moon]

we are suppose to be alpha testing the game. Always nice to have the options on the side in case you want to use them.

And for those who dont want to use them, they need not turn them on

[Fourdots]

Cheating shouldn't easy. Losing should be.

[The-Moon]

Its not technically cheating, were alpha testers. We should have options like this, otherwise how are we suppose to test the game fully and completely.

[MrWiggles]

How can you cheat at solitaire?

[PiCroft]

Cheating shouldn't easy. Losing should be.

How can you cheat at solitaire?

More appropriately: how can you cheat at lego?

[Ralith]

Now I have an image of seven hairy dwarves building walls of lego just in time to stop demons, etc..

Yeah, it'd be nice, but for some people the temptation might be too much. People'd complain, especially once (if) this game goes commercial.

[Urist McCheeseMaker]

then make it require a code. it could be changed every release, to avoid those complaints.

i nominate "tholtig" as the first one!

[Ilmoran]

Its not technically cheating, were alpha testers. We should have options like this, otherwise how are we suppose to test the game fully and completely.

You should have options to circumvent game mechanics in order to test game mechanics?  That's a little silly.

Also, fyi, you can change the number of embark points you get when you generate a world.  The in-game interface lets you go to 10,000, and that number isn't checked if you edit the txt directly (I've got a world gen'd with 20k embark points, so I can buy fancy animals if I feel like it).

I don't agree with having a full-blown cheat menu in game, and being able to edit stats of creatures doesn't help test, because you jump past the stat gain mechanics.  Further down the line, once most of the in-game mechanics are finalized, being able to edit stats via value injection might help ensure the game gracefully handles situations it's not supposed to get into, but for testing core functionality, you should actually be using the core functionality.

That said, being able to Reveal when paused and go back to the unrevealed map when not paused might be slightly useful, and certainly would be convenient.  Overall though, I'd say leave the cheats out of the game.  If you want to play the game outside of the way it's intended, it's not going to kill you to look for it.

[j0nas]

If you don't want any cheats, don't use the cheats.  This game is purely single player, and there are about as many ways to play it as there are players.  "I don't want to use cheats, therefore no-one else should have the option" is a silly argument.

[Ilmoran]

If you don't want any cheats, don't use the cheats.  This game is purely single player, and there are about as many ways to play it as there are players.  "I don't want to use cheats, therefore no-one else should have the option" is a silly argument.

Please show me where I said "I don't want to use cheats, therefore no-one else should have the option"?  There already is the option to cheat, and it doesn't bother me.  It just seems silly to spend time building an option to circumvent parts of the game into the game itself, rather than working on the actual features of the game.

[j0nas]

If you don't want any cheats, don't use the cheats.  This game is purely single player, and there are about as many ways to play it as there are players.  "I don't want to use cheats, therefore no-one else should have the option" is a silly argument.

Please show me where I said "I don't want to use cheats, therefore no-one else should have the option"?  There already is the option to cheat, and it doesn't bother me.  It just seems silly to spend time building an option to circumvent parts of the game into the game itself, rather than working on the actual features of the game.

But whether or not it's worth the time to build into the game is a decision for the developers, not you.  We suggest and they decide, so that's a non-argument.  I can't find any mention of this argument in your post either, so..

You did say, however:

f you want to play the game outside of the way it's intended, it's not going to kill you to look for it.

This clearly implies that you preferred way to play is the Only Right Way, which is what I was disagreeing with.

[Ilmoran]

If you don't want any cheats, don't use the cheats.  This game is purely single player, and there are about as many ways to play it as there are players.  "I don't want to use cheats, therefore no-one else should have the option" is a silly argument.

Please show me where I said "I don't want to use cheats, therefore no-one else should have the option"?  There already is the option to cheat, and it doesn't bother me.  It just seems silly to spend time building an option to circumvent parts of the game into the game itself, rather than working on the actual features of the game.

But whether or not it's worth the time to build into the game is a decision for the developers, not you.  We suggest and they decide, so that's a non-argument.  I can't find any mention of this argument in your post either, so..

You did say, however:

f you want to play the game outside of the way it's intended, it's not going to kill you to look for it.

This clearly implies that you preferred way to play is the Only Right Way, which is what I was disagreeing with.

We also give feedback on each others suggestions, which is what I was doing.

And my statement isn't meant to imply that that I play "The Only Right Way".  I use Therapist, Reveal (although I prefer DFHack's version because it will un-reveal the tiles for you so it doesn't mess up discovery triggers), dfliquids because I don't feel like setting up irrigation for my underground farms when they're on soil, and I use custom reactions and materials in game, and make exotic pets common domestic and trainable so I can have immigrants show up with tame voracious cave crawlers.

I simply don't think they are hard enough to find or use to warrant building them into the game directly.

And basically, you ignored everything else I said on the topic because I made a comment that it isn't that hard to cheat already, which I find kind of annoying (the ignoring the rest of the post part).

[j0nas]

To me, that was what the statement implied.  Unfortunately I cannot read what you meant to write, only what you wrote.

As for 'ignoring' parts of your post, I don't really follow.  I don't think I missed anything relevant to what you and I just discussed.