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Author Topic: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.  (Read 21635 times)

Duke 2.0

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #225 on: May 16, 2010, 02:38:36 am »

 Eh. America is too diverse to let any of your paranoia problems be an issue. If any one faith does cause troubles, which I doubt, then the people will be up in arms over it. But the government is neutral enough over things and naming ones faith as a selling point during an election seems more like an election promise than any real substance. Just something to get elected.
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Buck up friendo, we're all on the level here.
I would bet money Andrew has edited things retroactively, except I can't prove anything because it was edited retroactively.
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Aqizzar

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #226 on: May 16, 2010, 02:40:41 am »

Oh for crap's sake.  Enough with talking about religion in politics.  You're supposed to be talking about sexuality in children's pageants.  Or crappy movies or something.  Point is, ladies' up in here tonight, no fighin' no fightin'.
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And here is where my beef pops up like a looming awkward boner.
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Oglokoog

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #227 on: May 16, 2010, 02:43:36 am »

Oh for crap's sake.  Enough with talking about religion in politics.  You're supposed to be talking about sexuality in children's pageants.  Or crappy movies or something.  Point is, ladies' up in here tonight, no fighin' no fightin'.

'kay, sorry. Maybe I should start a new thread. Or is there one for this?
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So we got monsters above, monsters below, dwarves in the middle and a party in the dining hall. Sounds good to me.
If all else fails, remember one thing:  kittens are delicious, nutritious little goblin-baiters, cavern explorers, and ambush-finders.

Duke 2.0

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #228 on: May 16, 2010, 02:45:16 am »

 I can avoid the religion and politics topics because I know how they work out, but when that shit comes to topics I don't avoid...

 grrrr

 But yeah. I am noticing that things were starting to repeat themselves around the time Neruz was banned. Seemed the same points are brought up, somebody argues that they are invalid, some back and fourth bantering, the first guy raises the first issue again, the second guy argues it is invalid again, etc. Ultimately is seems both sides won't take what the other says terribly seriously and feels their arguments are foundationless.
 And then the personal calls come into play.
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Buck up friendo, we're all on the level here.
I would bet money Andrew has edited things retroactively, except I can't prove anything because it was edited retroactively.
MIERDO MILLAS DE VIBORAS FURIOSAS PARA ESTRANGULARTE MUERTO

Jackrabbit

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #229 on: May 16, 2010, 02:46:14 am »

Oh for crap's sake.  Enough with talking about religion in politics.  You're supposed to be talking about sexuality in children's pageants.  Or crappy movies or something.  Point is, ladies' up in here tonight, no fighin' no fightin'.

'kay, sorry. Maybe I should start a new thread. Or is there one for this?

Atheist thread. Your opinion will be as valid and relevant to the subject as everything else in that thread, I assure you.
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piecewise

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #230 on: May 16, 2010, 02:48:18 am »

Now for something entirely different

Who likes Video mixtapes?

Jackrabbit

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #231 on: May 16, 2010, 02:49:50 am »

I do not because they sexualize young girls.

haha you cannot escape
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Oglokoog

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #232 on: May 16, 2010, 02:57:50 am »

I can avoid the religion and politics topics because I know how they work out, but when that shit comes to topics I don't avoid...

 grrrr

 But yeah. I am noticing that things were starting to repeat themselves around the time Neruz was banned. Seemed the same points are brought up, somebody argues that they are invalid, some back and fourth bantering, the first guy raises the first issue again, the second guy argues it is invalid again, etc. Ultimately is seems both sides won't take what the other says terribly seriously and feels their arguments are foundationless.
 And then the personal calls come into play.

It works similarly even in threads that are not about arguing, curiously enough. You start a thread about some interesting mechanic or technique in DF that you discovered. The first three or so pages are good, but around page four, people start asking the same questions they did on page one and before you know it, the thread has 20 pages and half the people are talking about correct ratios of coffee versus milk. The other half is still on topic, but is replaying the same conversation over and over because no-one can be bothered to actually go back and read the previous post to ensure that what he is posting hasn't been posted before. That's the Internet for ya.
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So we got monsters above, monsters below, dwarves in the middle and a party in the dining hall. Sounds good to me.
If all else fails, remember one thing:  kittens are delicious, nutritious little goblin-baiters, cavern explorers, and ambush-finders.

IronyOwl

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #233 on: May 16, 2010, 03:00:12 am »

I do not because they sexualize young girls.

haha you cannot escape

I really wish the context was conveyable enough to sig this.

Alas.
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The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

Deathworks

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #234 on: May 16, 2010, 03:31:14 am »

Hi!

I have not bothered to seek out that video as I do not need to get a brain-bleach-worthy experience. However, there are a few things, some of them tangents, I want to comment on.

First of all, I totally agree with the explanation Zombie has given about the problem lying in adults putting sexualized rituals on children who may be not aware of the meaning of what they are doing. Putting it very bluntly, it is the question of whether adults are using children to get any kind of sexual satisfaction, and that is independent of whether a child understands what is going on - or do you need a six year old understand sexuality in order to say it is a bad thing to have a man ask the child to rub the man's genitals?

Secondly, unlike several other Western countries, Germany has not yet introduced censorship on the internet. They have passed a law in that direction but have suspended it for a year. So, currently, Germany as a country is not blocking any content in that direction.

Third, pedophilia ONLY refers to the sexual attraction and NOT to engaging in sexual activity with children. A pedophile does not necessarily turn into a child molester - as long as the person realizes that acting out their fantasies in real life would cause harm and thus keep control over themselves and do not act out any of their thoughts, they are not a child molester. On the other hand, while probably a sizable portion of child molesters are pedophiles, there are also two additional types, namely those who are basically interested in degrading/oppressing people and who choose children because they are the weakest prey for such abuse in sight and then there are those who are generally not attracted to chidlren, but who are deprived of any of their normal "mates" and turn to children to release sexual pressure, simply because of the availability.

Please allow me to stress this, as I think that it is indeed a very important issue in society. Regardless of what differences we may have, I think we can all agree that each case in which a child is sexually abused is one case too many. Child molestation has to be stopped and preferably BEFORE it happens. And personally, I think that is where the distinction between pedophiles and child molesters gets important - as pedophiles may notice their feelings long before they may actually get into a situation where they may act upon them, there is a phase where they can search for professional help in order to control their urges. Personally, I think society benefits more from having a pedophile who gets psychological treatment that allows them to be a contributing member of society who never causes harm to anyone than from having a child molester locked away AFTER they have caused harm to one or more children - while the locking up is necessary, you can't undo the damage done to the child(ren).

It may be difficult, emotionally, but I think that society should therefore offer pedophiles (not child molesters) a clear perspective: "Keep your fantasies to fiction, don't touch any children, and we will accept you as a member of society. And if you are worried about yourself, do get some professional help, we support you in that." While I can see that it is much more difficult than "Let's burn them on a stick!", I think it is much better at preventing children getting raped, as the atmosphere of fear society currently creates only makes pedophiles reluctant to talk with professional health care personal until it is too late. And thus, the harsh approach is likely to cause more child abuse rather than less.

Mind you, child molestation itself is intolerable in any civilized society in my opinion.

Fourth, I have always been wondering about how children are used in advertisements for products not being sold to children. For instance, children being used in advertisements for cars. I see this as already a step towards exploitation of children, it seems very similar to the idea of "sex sells".

Deathworks

EDIT: Fixed a little bit of grammar, and clarified the large statement.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 03:35:54 am by Deathworks »
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Oglokoog

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #235 on: May 16, 2010, 03:43:48 am »

You see, I really think you're just seeing a problem where there isn't one. The way they dance can, of course, be interpreted as sexual, but it is still just dancing. They aren't doing it because they were forced to, they are doing it to show off their skill - they are children and that is exactly why this can hardly be called "child abuse" in any way; there is no abused side in this, they are the only active component, the audience is just as uninvolved as ever. How exactly do you think it is going to negatively affect their future life? They do not understand that what they are doing can be seen as having a sexual subtext, therefore it doesn't have the subtext to them. And if they do understand it, well then the problem is probably somewhere else entirely.
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So we got monsters above, monsters below, dwarves in the middle and a party in the dining hall. Sounds good to me.
If all else fails, remember one thing:  kittens are delicious, nutritious little goblin-baiters, cavern explorers, and ambush-finders.

Deathworks

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #236 on: May 16, 2010, 04:00:06 am »

Hi!

I don't see a problem in their future either as it is not a case of child abuse (in that case, there would be more people than just the parents who have failed).

However, I see such things as a usage of real life children as the target of (pseudo-) sexual interest of adults and also as children encourage to engage in activities that can give adults (pseudo-) sexual pleasure (I consider an adult male seeing a female he considers "hot" to already enjoying pseudo-sexual pleasure as there is the joy caused by the prospect of sexual intercourse - just the way all those bikini posters and so on work).

And your point about the children not understanding the situation just goes along what I already said - a small child may not understand why that man wants it to rub that part of his body - but that does not make it any less abusive. And this is where a similarity can be seen - children are encouraged into a conduct that - unknowingly to them, probably - has a (pseudo-)sexual meaning for the adults encouraging that behavior. Or putting it very harshly, by the same token you defend such displays, a child molester specializing on children younger than 6 might argue that the children do not understand that these acts are sexual and enjoy them as playing. That would be just the same line of argument. And it shows why these displays are harmful for society in my eyes. For at least in my opinion, there is no justification and no excuse for an adult engaging in any kind of sexual activity with a real life child.

Deathworks
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IronyOwl

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #237 on: May 16, 2010, 05:06:15 am »

And your point about the children not understanding the situation just goes along what I already said - a small child may not understand why that man wants it to rub that part of his body - but that does not make it any less abusive.
...
And it shows why these displays are harmful for society in my eyes.

That's nice, but you haven't actually mentioned why it's harmful. That's a rather crucial part of your argument.
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Quote from: Radio Controlled (Discord)
A hand, a hand, my kingdom for a hot hand!
The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

Jackrabbit

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #238 on: May 16, 2010, 05:13:29 am »

Well, the child could feel abused, violated, they could end up emotionally scarred, especially once they learn more, they could be socially ostracized because of it, it could straight up physically hurt them and I'm sure there's plenty more that I haven't thought of. That's if a man "wants it to rub that part of his body".

Wait no you didn't mean that. Blargh.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 05:15:20 am by Jackrabbit »
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Deathworks

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #239 on: May 16, 2010, 05:14:09 am »

Hi!

That's nice, but you haven't actually mentioned why it's harmful. That's a rather crucial part of your argument.

Because these displays and the way society embraces it implies that society is alright with that kind of (pseudo-)sexually exploiting children. Especially if you say it is because the children don't see it as (pseudo-)sexual and that would make it alright.

If you start walking down that road, the next thing you see will be a bit more explicit, then more explicit, and then you have that man I described, saying that he was only doing what everyone else was doing. And society faces a contradiction if they want to tell him that his behavior is not tolerable.

Mind you, I don't think society needs to forbid such pageants and such advertisements, but there should be a critical attitude towards it. Then you can argue that it is grudgingly tolerated but not encouraged, but taking it that one step further is crossing the line to intolerable. That makes more sense than saying that it is cool and good, but change it just a little bit, and you are suddenly completely intolerable.

Or putting it simply: It encourages society to view children as fair game for (pseudo-)sexual real life activities.

Deathworks

EDIT: I hope this post makes sense. I am having a somewhat difficult time describing my thoughts/feelings adequately in less than 10,000 words. So, please try to understand the message and forgive potential minor mistakes in the form. Thank you.
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