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[Pathos]

Source

Sorry, Bioware, you can stick a bunch of "moral choices" in a game, but without roleplaying it's not an RPG. I don't know what you call it. A stat up game with "moral choices", maybe?

[Volatar]

Dude, have you PLAYED FFXIII? Its not a game at all, its a freaking movie with some interactive parts 

[Pathos]

Dude, have you PLAYED FFXIII? Its not a game at all, its a freaking movie with some interactive parts 

Dear god, I hated the game, but it's no less an RPG than DA:O or ME is. (I.E. they're either all RPGs or none of them.)

[Dr. Johbson]

Bioware was probably just insulted because people kept calling FFXIII a game, let alone an RPG. I would be too, I've 'played' FFXIII.

[quinnr]

Dude, have you PLAYED FFXIII? Its not a game at all, its a freaking movie with some interactive parts 

Go play Xenosega.
There are literally like hour long cutscenes.
With 2 savepoints in ONE FLIPPING CUTSCENE.

Gameplay totally made up for it though.

[Farce]

It did until it was robots everywhere.

Screw those robots, man.  Don't get me wrong, they're pretty cool, but not when they're the only combat ever as soon as you get 7 AP.


Oh wait, you're talking about Xenosaga.  That game had gameplay?

[Tilla]

Dude, have you PLAYED FFXIII? Its not a game at all, its a freaking movie with some interactive parts 

Go play Xenosega.
There are literally like hour long cutscenes.
With 2 savepoints in ONE FLIPPING CUTSCENE.

Gameplay totally made up for it though.

Right. Whereas FFXIII? Doesn't really have gameplay. The combat is so straightforward you just walk between cutscenes pressing X without worry. Xenosaga actually had some thinking involved in the gameplay when it popped up.

[Duke 2.0]

Oh wait, you're talking about Xenosaga.  That game had gameplay?

It did, but it was not what you would call worth it.

[quinnr]

Spoiler: Xenofftopic (click to show/hide)

I loved Xenosaga, it had an awesome battle system. Err...mostly a pretty battle system. And lots of blood everywhere. (Although that disappears when you fight the aliens. Then you have little sparklies)

I liked the whole AP system, where you could gaurd or use an item, then do a super attack, and I especially loved the different "attack combos" there  were.

And the story wasn't that bad really, if more of it had been Gameplay.
Also, Chaos was in the game. That makes it awesome already.

[Myroc]

This screams hypocrisy. Though in this case, they're still right. I have never played FF XIII, but a game of the type he described (No real choices, no roles of your own, etc.) aren't really role-playing games.

The real problem is that the definition "RPG" has been kinda distorted through the history of gaming, and is now more associated with levels, stats and grind than roles, stories and characters.

[Zaranthan]

I've always divorced the term "RPG" from its origins as an acronym for "RolePlaying Game." To me, a Roleplaying Game is a game where you have control over the story. While the classic definition is a bunch of guys playing Dungeons & Dragons with a human behind the table telling a story, something as simple as a single decision that alters how the epilogue plays out could be considered a Roleplaying Game Element (see: Oni, Fable, Chrono Trigger). "RPG," however, has absorbed the definition of "CRPG," which is the Final Fantasy-style stat/levelup/etc. system that most people associate it with. The stat-building "RPG Elements" of GTA:San Andreas are classic CRPG stuff, for example. I don't know how GTA:SA plays out, but if you have no control over how the story unfolds, it may be an "RPG," but it's no roleplaying game.

CONTROVERSIAL OPINION ALERT! ABANDON ALL HOPE, YE WHO READ FURTHER!
Also, It Was His Sled alert: Final Fantasy 6 is 16 years old, you should know the plot by now. I'll spoiler tag it anyway.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

FF6 isn't a roleplaying game.

It's an excellent CRPG. It has an amazing story. It has characters that grab your heart and drag it onto the rollercoaster of its life.

It's not roleplaying.

It's storytelling. It tells a terrific story, and it tells it incredibly well, but you, the player, are not playing any role in it. You're directing their combat tactics and teaching them spells. Aside from saving/dooming Shadow and Cid, the story doesn't change at all no matter what you do. Watching all of Cyan's nightmares doesn't brighten his ending. Ignoring Strago, Relm, Umaro, and all the other minor characters doesn't prevent their happily ever after. Interacting with Atma Weapon doesn't bring it into the story.

FF6 is what everyone thinks of when they see "RPG," but it's not a Roleplaying Game.

[fenrif]

I've said for years, JRPGs aren't RPGs. They're more like narrative tactical combat games. Extremely linear in their plots, with pre-defined characters, and good combat mechanics. Except FFXIII. That's just a 'Press-the-A-button' simulator.

Now, I'd argue that mass effect is an RPG because you can actually play your character how you want. Sure it's all just arbitrary moral choices, and many of them are rather shallow, but you can still choose if you wanna be a badass no nonsense guy or a bleeding heart goody-goody. It's watered down, but it's still there to a degree.

[Mfbrew]

The RPG terminology debate is old as dirt.  JRPGs are supposed to be on rails. WRPGs are supposed to be largely nonlinear.

If the guys at Bioware spent less time criticizing the Japanese and more time actually making decent games that don't just rehash bland old D&D stereotypes, then their complaints wouldn't sound so ridiculous.

[fenrif]

I don't think it's as simple as them just being extremely linear though. Much of it has to do with the massive disconnect between the gameplay and the story. Generally the people you control when playing the game aren't the same people as in the cut-scenes. They don't have the same abilities, or do the same things you do... And often things work differently just to progress the plot.

[Mfbrew]

JRPGs don't make a damn bit of sense consistency-wise, but they're supposed to be that way.  It's moot to complain that a 80 second long summoning spell that shoots dragon lasers and meteors through the world only deals 100 hp of damage, but a sword stab in a cutscene can kill permanently.  It's like telling Picasso "hey man, your people look a little unrealistic."

The people designing the game know what they're doing.  They're playing along to a set of 25 year old tropes that make their target audience - Japanese gamers - happy and nostalgic.  If American and euro gamers don't get it, Japanese developers don't care - they have their niche of rabid fanboys here who'll buy it regardless.