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[Pathos]

Although Dwarf Fortress is probably the best out of all these, the current computer (a laptop, in fact) I'm running on can barely handle it.

I'm just lamenting the fact that there's been barely any decent city building etc games out in a few years. I've been building cities in SimCities, playing around with my island paradises in Anno 1404 and raising my norns in the Creatures series, but there's nothing NEW. Anno 1404 held my attention for a short while (very short, actually) and I actually tried to play Spore again (I know) but I need new games to play in order to entertain myself.

What I don't get is WHY these sort of games aren't being made. There's obviously a market for something similar to them (Sims, Spore, Creatures, Black&White) but there's a dearth of developers making these games. I'd GUESS it's based off executive meddling, but the question then is what do you count as a cash worthy game?

So, can anyone explain to me why very few of these games are getting made ( and next to no in-depth ones)? I mean, it seems like the companies think their terribad FPS clones can keep making them money forever. >.>

P.S. It evens seems like there's a refusal to make games like Dungeon Keeper, which I would imagine would sell well in this current market.

[woose1]

Why do they think that their FPS games can keep on making them loads of money?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Because it can. Not everyone wants a super-realistic innovating god game, sadly, and I imagine that they're very boring to code for the indie developer crowd.

[Ultimuh]

I'd GUESS it's based off executive meddling, but the question then is what do you count as a cash worthy game?

Oh i dunno.. First person Shooters.
They always seem to make new games based on shooting stuff while in first person mode.
And FIFA/NFL/whateversports games.

Unfortunaly, theese are the two of types that seem to be made most.

EDIT: Got Ninja'd!

[woose1]

Coincidentally, they're the two most well bought kinds of games. This is not just blind speculation: everyone in my school that owns a Xbox 360 owns either Modern Warfare 2 or Halo 3, both of which are mainstream FPS's. And I mean EVERYONE. I'd love to see somebody that doesn't, I know I do, for one.

[beorn080]

Its simple. Its relatively easy to code an FPS, since there are dozens of engines premade. You pretty much have to code the Sim engine from scratch.

[Pathos]

Why do they think that their FPS games can keep on making them loads of money?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Because it can. Not everyone wants a super-realistic innovating god game, sadly, and I imagine that they're very boring to code for the indie developer crowd.

I don't really want a super realistic one, I just want a decent god game that makes you feel like a god. Black&White was a great example, even if it was quite flawed in a lot of areas.

And, I'm fairly certain we're going to get oversatured with FPS games soon enough. I mean, Guitar Hero has started to go down the shitter and that didn't produce nearly as many games.

And FIFA/NFL/whateversports games.

I read this as watersports and thought Ultimuh was sick then I realised I read it wrong. =(

[Soulwynd]

watersports

I think the problem is that FPS games receive a much better coverage than god/building/sim games. The second problem is that a FPS is much much easier to make than a building game, specially a decent building game. Takes more programming effort instead of simply focusing on making it look good.

[nenjin]

My blanket answer is: violence is more popular than creation. It's more accessible too.

Evil Genius was a solid attempt at a DKII-type of game. It's sad that more games like this aren't made. But that's why I keep a close eye on the indie game scene.

As for God games....man, I've wondered this so many times. The tech is there, the systems are there, the potential to make the greatest god game ever is there....and yet everyone misses the mark. B&W came close, but let itself get confused along the way, frequently. Demigod wasn't interested in the SIM aspects at all.

We don't want a game with friendly, cutesy helpers irritating us or spoiling the moment. We don't want to solve 'quests'. We don't want goofy avatars as expressions of ourselves. We don't want to relate to the world in the way our little mortal peons do.

We want to shape the land on a whim. We want to shape the people to reflect us, not their needs. We want to impact reality itself and have the people cry out our name while we do it. We want varied paths of growth and development that reflect our growing power as a god. We want to be able to make the rules, and break the rules since we are the rules.

Well, that's what *I* want anyways. Take the original B&W model, and automate 90% of the city and population management. Strip out the stupid quests. Create an RPG framework for the growth of God powers. Make worship and conversion the dominant game play goal, and give the player DF-like control over fundamental mechanics, like Time, entity properties, terrain and on. Make multiple game modes, one where you are the only god in creation, and one where you play through a campaign to dominate other gods. Give the player intense customization of their God, and have these aspects carry over into the kind of behavior their people exhibit, and the way the world looks and feels.

I have faith someone will get there eventually. Developers can only obsess so long on the perfect city SIM before they start revisiting other genres.

These kinds of games will never be that popular, at least on the scale of FPS and 3rd person anythings. I don't lament the fact Activision and EA and Ubisoft don't green light these kinds of games. I lament the fact that smaller dev houses that don't require that kind of budget aren't doing them either.

[Pathos]

<snip>

You pretty much managed to hit what I'd enjoy on the head, although I do think it's important to be able to make your cities grow massively with your powers etc.

Start off small with a little tribe that you have to care for to a city state to an empire etc. As you go further along, each individual city becomes more automated, but you can still effect their growth through usage of your god abilities. Civ-style management options, where what you choose effect how non-worshippers / people who break religious laws are treated etc.

I suspect it'd hit both the god game and SimCity crowds, especially if you'd be able to zoom in on cities.

[Pathos]

Also, is Tropico 3 any good?

[Soulwynd]

It's entertaining and some difficult scenarios are indeed difficult to beat.

I don't see much replayability in it, however, but it's worth to play through once and beat all the scenarios. Major turnoff however: No windowed mode.

[Pathos]

I think I accidentally locked the topic. >.<

[nenjin]

Tropico 3 is ok. Decent city building, good sim aspects (i.e. named individuals with jobs and info and personalities), some cute political game play aspects (secret police, rigged elections, elections speeches, global politics). There's some replayability to it, depending on how much you like to challenge yourself. I never had to deal with an armed rebellion before I quit playing, so, you get out of it what you put into it. All around a decent game, with good flavor. I'd say it's more of a casual sim.

Also:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=28281.0

[Pathos]

Tropico 3 is ok. Decent city building, good sim aspects (i.e. named individuals with jobs and info and personalities), some cute political game play aspects (secret police, rigged elections, elections speeches, global politics). There's some replayability to it, depending on how much you like to challenge yourself. I never had to deal with an armed rebellion before I quit playing, so, you get out of it what you put into it. All around a decent game, with good flavor. I'd say it's more of a casual sim.

Also:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=28281.0

So, is it any good, compared to the first Tropico?

=p

I might have to write up the idea for a god sim. >.<

[Ultimuh]

There is also one important factor which decides if a sim will be good, mediocre or just bad. (I think counts for ALL genres tough)
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExecutiveMeddling