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[Deon]

Yeah, it's said that they are "likely" dead but there were no proofs found (and I think even if there were they could be hidden). You know, you could be on a small ship, still without any tools to navigate it's pretty easy to get lost in the sea .

[Jackrabbit]

Poor guys.

[RedKing]

Yes, pity the poor Kalashnikov-wielding would-be ship thieves/hostage-takers.

They made the mistake of breaking Rule #1 of international piracy: Don't f**k with the Russians or the Chinese. They are not like "the West". They will not dither about trying to figure out nebulous concepts such as "jurisdiction". They will shoot your ass, and/or set you adrift in shark-infested waters.

As I said, it will be interesting to see if attacks on Russian-flagged vessels decreases after this. If so, you may see a small flood of shippers rushing to reflag their ships. And if so, you may see other navies get correspondingly harsh in their response.

[Deon]

I don't feel pity, I don't think russians could escort them because they had no right to carry them as hostages, and also they didn't give them their gear back because the pirates could go and attack another vessel after they reach their weapon cache somewhere on the coast, I just said that it's sad that people died in the sea. Maybe they had kills in their life, maybe not, so we cannot judge them, but if they hadn't attacked the ship in the first place, you're right, they would be safe at home. It's a dangerous "profession".

[Jackrabbit]

Yes, pity the poor Kalashnikov-wielding would-be ship thieves/hostage-takers.

They made the mistake of breaking Rule #1 of international piracy: Don't f**k with the Russians or the Chinese. They are not like "the West". They will not dither about trying to figure out nebulous concepts such as "jurisdiction". They will shoot your ass, and/or set you adrift in shark-infested waters.

As I said, it will be interesting to see if attacks on Russian-flagged vessels decreases after this. If so, you may see a small flood of shippers rushing to reflag their ships. And if so, you may see other navies get correspondingly harsh in their response.

I will pity those who are likely to die from either starvation or drowning. Both are horrible deaths.

I won't think of them as good people and I won't accept what they've done as remotely okay, but I'll still pity them.

[Urist mc.miner]

It wasn't an unstable raft that made it sink it was....THE TERRORISTS!!!!

[Crackpot conspiracy counter:7 ]

Also the only reason why those pirates are pirates is because they have to do that to feed there family.

[RedKing]

No, they do so because it's the most cost-effective way of feeding their family (if they have one, and if they actually use their profits to do so).

Dealing crack on the streets is a more cost-effective way of making money than working at McDonald's. That doesn't mean I feel bad for crack dealers. There are plenty of people in bad socioeconomic situations who *don't* turn to crime. Those are the people I reserve my pity for.

[fenrif]

Yes, pity the poor Kalashnikov-wielding would-be ship thieves/hostage-takers.

They made the mistake of breaking Rule #1 of international piracy: Don't f**k with the Russians or the Chinese. They are not like "the West". They will not dither about trying to figure out nebulous concepts such as "jurisdiction". They will shoot your ass, and/or set you adrift in shark-infested waters.

As I said, it will be interesting to see if attacks on Russian-flagged vessels decreases after this. If so, you may see a small flood of shippers rushing to reflag their ships. And if so, you may see other navies get correspondingly harsh in their response.

You won't see attacks on russian vessels decrease, because this is their only option. We've fucked over their coastline by using it as a toxic waste dumping ground. If you were unlucky enough to be born in Somalia, you'd be a pirate too.

All this means is that the next group of pirates to take over a russian ship will know surrender is death, and they'll kill the hostages at the fist sign of trouble.

No, they do so because it's the most cost-effective way of feeding their family (if they have one, and if they actually use their profits to do so).

Dealing crack on the streets is a more cost-effective way of making money than working at McDonald's. That doesn't mean I feel bad for crack dealers. There are plenty of people in bad socioeconomic situations who *don't* turn to crime. Those are the people I reserve my pity for.

If you think dealing crack is the most cost-effective way of making money, you are a fool.

[Deon]

Is there a reason to flame over something which is not even related to you, guys?

[RedKing]

Yes, pity the poor Kalashnikov-wielding would-be ship thieves/hostage-takers.

They made the mistake of breaking Rule #1 of international piracy: Don't f**k with the Russians or the Chinese. They are not like "the West". They will not dither about trying to figure out nebulous concepts such as "jurisdiction". They will shoot your ass, and/or set you adrift in shark-infested waters.

As I said, it will be interesting to see if attacks on Russian-flagged vessels decreases after this. If so, you may see a small flood of shippers rushing to reflag their ships. And if so, you may see other navies get correspondingly harsh in their response.

You won't see attacks on russian vessels decrease, because this is their only option. We've fucked over their coastline by using it as a toxic waste dumping ground. If you were unlucky enough to be born in Somalia, you'd be a pirate too.

All this means is that the next group of pirates to take over a russian ship will know surrender is death, and they'll kill the hostages at the fist sign of trouble.

No, they do so because it's the most cost-effective way of feeding their family (if they have one, and if they actually use their profits to do so).

Dealing crack on the streets is a more cost-effective way of making money than working at McDonald's. That doesn't mean I feel bad for crack dealers. There are plenty of people in bad socioeconomic situations who *don't* turn to crime. Those are the people I reserve my pity for.

If you think dealing crack is the most cost-effective way of making money, you are a fool.

Re-read what I said. I didn't say "most", I said "more cost-effective than working at McDonald's". One day of selling on the streets, if you're in a "busy" neighborhood, would bring in more cash that you'd make in six months at minimum wage. I can understand that appeal. True, there are other opportunity costs to be considered, but most of them are potential costs (death, imprisonment, etc.) rather than guaranteed costs.

Contrary to public opinion around here, Somalia is not composed of 100% pirates. There are people there that have such mundane jobs as "fruit stand operator", for instance. Granted, it takes them years to make what a pirate can expect to see from one good ransom. But as I said, that economic reality doesn't make piracy acceptable any more than it makes crack dealers acceptable.

[fenrif]

Dealing crack on the streets is only more cost effective if you don't consider being shot in the face, arrested, mugged or robbed, etc a problem. If you dont think potential costs factor into cost-effectiveness then go buy yourself some crack, get yourself a gun (probobly much easier if you live in the USA), find yourself a street corner, and then shout at random passerbys that you've got some crack. Good luck with that.

Yeah there are people in Somalia who aren't pirates. But as I understand it most of the pirates come from the fishing villages that have had their entire livelyhood destroyed by western coorperations dumping toxic waste off their coast and before that using fishing trawlers to over-fish the areas. People that live inland probobly aren't affected by this, so you don't have a huge piracy problem away from the coastal areas. That'll be where all your fruit stand operators work.

This is because the government collapsed (I think theres a new government in, but they're busy fighting terrorists and rebels), so mutlinational coorperations though "who's gonna stop us?" and started doing whatever they wanted off the Somali coast. All those people with nice respectable jobs, screwing over village upon village of people because, well, what are they gonna do to us? Their government doesn't protect them, our governments don't care, and our coorperations will do whatever they feel like to increase their profit.

There was an article on slashdot a few months ago talking about how the pirates have set up a coop profit sharing system for entire villages. They use the ransoms from piracy to build hospitals and schools. Even the people who aren't activly pirates support them by donating weapons and ammo because guess what, fruit stand operator doesn't pay the bills as much as you might think.

It's very easy to dismiss them as horrible people because you've never been in any situation that even remotely compares to theirs. They're just doing what they need to do to survive. I'm much more inclined to demonize the people who worked for the companies that put them in this situation in the first place.

[RedKing]

I'm not dismissing them as horrible people. Most of them are young, scared and basically inoffensive. They have, however, chosen to pursue a profession with a high innate risk of bad things happening to them.

And whlie I'm generally left-leaning in my politics, what I see here is the "don't blame them, they're victims too" mentality taken to an unacceptably silly degree.


As for the slashdot ref, I'm not surprised nor is this is the first criminal enterprise to have some positive impact on their local community. The Sicilian Mafia has long been famous for donating to the Church, funding orphanges, etc. The drug cartels in Mexico have done the same in places. Terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah do social work and pay the equivalent of Social Security to widows and people that have been disabled due to attacks by Israel.

That doesn't make them good guys. It makes them slightly more morally ambiguous criminals. There are pragmatic reasons for doing so--it's much easier to carry on a criminal enterprise if the local population is favorably inclined towards you, and they tend not to get as jealous of your profits if you spread a little around.

Despite the fact that they are in a sh*thole which is not of their own making, and despite the fact that their targets are multinational corporations with deep pockets, these guys are NOT modern-day Robin Hoods.

[Grakelin]

They're not feeding their families, most of them just got out of their youth and have no children to feed.

EDIT: And they're led by Pirate Warlords who own multiple Cadillacs and large mansions.

[Firehound]

Silly Ruskies. When you sent someone adrift in a rubber boat, you usually inflate the boat first....

sigged

They do arm cargo ships.Problem is port.If shipping to the united states or the like,while having assault rifles and HMG's Is perfectly fine in international waters,port laws tend to be very strict.

What if there was a staging point (or several) just outside national waters heading to major ports.  At these staging points (I'm imagining something like an oil rig) the crew would load all of said guns and ammunition into a labelled container.  Then a helicopter or boat would take it to the rig until the ship returns to retrieve the weapons on the way out.

Also:
The Russian ship will return to port mysteriously short one anti-ship missile.

Crackpot conspiracy counter: 6

That's crazy... it's a rubber boat... short one pistol round more like it.

--

And to the Morality of it.
If I rob a bank at gunpoint, shoot and kill a few guards on the way out, I am guilty of Murder and armed robbery.
If I then give that money to doctors so that several young orphaned children can then survive to grow up to be adults in the future, it doesn't change the fact I killed several people to do it.

It is still a capital crime -at least in america- and they were given a chance. More so then I would want them to have. It's sad that they choose their profession and then died because of it. But on the upside, there are now several pirates that will no longer kill people in their attempt to get as much as possible.

The reason they were able to get off on their boat sans equipment is probably that no one was killed.

[Phmcw]

Yes, dwarfy. Of course, most of the time dwarf are involved in horrible crime (sometime unwillingly) or recless behaviour and that make the game even funnier. This crime, heinous and uncalled for, is nothing near funny.

Anybody thinging this horror is normal or fun has seriously to rethink about its morallity.
They were prisoner, guilty of atempted robery. It's not in any sane legal system a ground for death penaliy. Of course, that if you count any legal system using death penaliy as sane.