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[Cthulhu]

As to whether a brain in a vat would be human is moot in my opinion. It would still be me.

Yeah. I was thinking about this sort of thing and its relation to immortality recently - it's the funny thing, really, as even if one cloned oneself, that would still be a seperate "individual" (the English language starts to fall apart around about now), and would still be a seperate conciousness, which will likely be affected in different ways to the "original", and so on, until it's not really (philosophically or otherwise) a clone at all. Then you've got the more transhuman methods of supposed immortality, which (on the face of it) detract from the level of "humanity" involved and focus on the... "individuality"? Preservation? I don't know. But then when you start to consider that cloning is effectively biologically perfect and the more outlandish transhumanist ideas are most likely biologically imperfect, how much of the "self" is contained in each? Can the imperfection in one method be compared against the imperfection of the other? Does the loss in transit matter one way more than the other when it comes to defining humanity/self-existance? etc, etc

/ramble

The clone would be a completely different person, since he'd be exposed to completely different stimuli and make completely different conclusions about said stimuli.  That's why clonesex is still gross (Unless you're a homosexual and are okay with that, or it's an opposite-sex clone.  Opposite-sex clonesex is awwwright)

Honestly though, I think transhumanism falls into the realm of super-loyal sentient robot slaves, matter-replicators, infinite fuel supplies, and hoverboards(Which totally existed, but they were banned because a kid died on one).  If we wait long enough, all our problems will go away.  Just wait, guys.  Just wait.  Flying cars will be out in ten years, I saw it on TV.

[3]

The clone would be a completely different person, since he'd be exposed to completely different stimuli and make completely different conclusions about said stimuli.  That's why clonesex is still gross (Unless you're a homosexual and are okay with that, or it's an opposite-sex clone.  Opposite-sex clonesex is awwwright)

I said that. :v

[Cthulhu]

I was concurring.

[Duke 2.0]

 Except that, you know, your opposite gender clone will be more related to you than your sister.

 Gets kinda squicky when you realize you are boning your sister.

[Cthulhu]

More like your identical twin...  Eh, yeah.  I guess I should stick to people I'm not related to and aren't clones for boning.

[Soadreqm]

Interestingly, if I remember my high school biology classes correctly, children you have with your opposite-sex clone will also be clones of you! Well, there will be two possible variations; there's necessarily a one-chromosome difference between you and your opposite-sex clone or it wouldn't be opposite-sex.

[piecewise]

Here's something to think about. If a clone is given your memories, is he you? Because you, the one sitting here reading, has no way of knowing if the you that went to bed last night was the you that woke up this morning. For all you know you're just fresh vat grown clone used to replace the you that died last night. Or perhaps something simpler, perhaps we all "die" every night and are mentally reformed using our memories. Are you really you? Are are you just today's version, living off memories of countless like you.

[Duke 2.0]

 I, Duke, am more than just a storage of memories. More than a body of matter. More than a concept, thought or ideal. My identity is more real than the laws of the universe. From my perception, from all perceptions, from the perception of the cosmos itself I am Duke. Let it witness the blazing lit purpose of reality!

 Goddammit, I knew I shouldn't have started listening to Gurren Lagann music. It just makes me watch the series again.

[Outcast Orange]

Yeah, precisely my point really. The way I feel is that when it comes down to it, the only thing that matters is my existance, as a mind.

You'd better not go to sleep then.
Your "mind" ends at that point.
The person waking up in the morning might have the same body,
 and the same brain even,
 and the same memories as you,
 but then again, so does your duplicate.

Basically, if you are willing to go to sleep,
 you should be satisfied with there being a copy of you.

BTW, Armok is way ahead of us on this exciting thought roller-coaster.

[Vester]

Don't forget, he can feel the 4th dimension with his arms. That's WAY advanced.

[Nilocy]

Yeah, precisely my point really. The way I feel is that when it comes down to it, the only thing that matters is my existance, as a mind.

You'd better not go to sleep then.
Your "mind" ends at that point.
The person waking up in the morning might have the same body,
 and the same brain even,
 and the same memories as you,
 but then again, so does your duplicate.

Basically, if you are willing to go to sleep,
 you should be satisfied with there being a copy of you.

Lolwat? Thats so stupid, infact probably the most stupid thing ever. When you go to sleep your brain is still in the same arrangement of molecules, protiens, neurons, synapses (with the exception of remembering a dream ofc) as they will be when you wake up. You arn't a copy or any such shit.

Edit: Missed a bit of reasoning out : P


Edit 2: Oh and clonesex would be highly stuppppiiidd, its pretty much super-incest.

[Duke 2.0]

 Hell yes. I am the Duke that is alive now and here. The Duke of yesterday is not the same as the Duke of today. The Me of the past hacked a path through the jungle of time to reach right here, right now, so that the Me of the present could forge a way to the future. Clones? I already am a different man each day. The concept of Me is not so rigid as to suggest that I may exist as me forever. I am Duke, no matter what form or identity I take on.

[Vester]

Yes, U are eternal.

[ChairmanPoo]

Hell yes. I am the Duke that is alive now and here. The Duke of yesterday is not the same as the Duke of today. The Me of the past hacked a path through the jungle of time to reach right here, right now, so that the Me of the present could forge a way to the future. Clones? I already am a different man each day. The concept of Me is not so rigid as to suggest that I may exist as me forever. I am Duke, no matter what form or identity I take on.

:O

... are you a god??

[Vester]

Hell yes. I am the Duke that is alive now and here. The Duke of yesterday is not the same as the Duke of today. The Me of the past hacked a path through the jungle of time to reach right here, right now, so that the Me of the present could forge a way to the future. Clones? I already am a different man each day. The concept of Me is not so rigid as to suggest that I may exist as me forever. I am Duke, no matter what form or identity I take on.

:O

... are you a god??

Better. He's Duke.