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[GaelicVigil]

Them spending so much time on modding tools and such annoys people like me who couldn't give a rat's ass what mod some random guy cooks up and just wants to play a fun game.

Hear hear.

That's fine.  I'm not saying people need mods to enhance the game if they don't want it.  I'm just saying that the main thrust or premise of the game's underlying content delivery system was changed at some point during development.  Their goal for in-house content, however, did not really change to make up for this (IE: they did not create enought content on their own).

If they had simply made up for this by adding a lot more to the game, I'd be completely fine with that.  Now if they decide to put this back in or continue to add in-house content is another point altogether.

It seems that Brad didn't want me publicizing this this information, because my post was deleted and I was banned from posting on their forums.  So that tells me that they are hiding it.  And as far as I can tell, I seem to be the last person on Earth referencing this stuff because I haven't seen or heard a word about it from anyone else.  This info was plastered all over the internet in 2008, just try googling, "elemental war of magic spore" and you'll see what I mean.

[forsaken1111]

The game should stand on its own as a great experience without mod support. The modding community is there to make a great game better and extend its lifecycle, not to elevate a mediocre game to 'okay'.

[nenjin]

Well, you being banned may have to do with posting a sort of inflammatory post on Day Zero. I imagine a lot of people got banned simply for being upset.

[forsaken1111]

It seems that Brad didn't want me publicizing this this information, because my post was deleted and I was banned from posting on their forums.  So that tells me that they are hiding it.  And as far as I can tell, I seem to be the last person on Earth referencing this stuff because I haven't seen or heard a word about it from anyone else.  This info was plastered all over the internet in 2008, just try googling, "elemental war of magic spore" and you'll see what I mean.

Do you have a copy of the post which was deleted?

[GaelicVigil]

Well, you being banned may have to do with posting a sort of inflammatory post on Day Zero. I imagine a lot of people got banned simply for being upset.

Did you read my post that I was banned over, does it sound inflammatory to you?  I may have been a little harsh, but I don't think it warranted a full ban.


Just found this reference:

The game also integrates mod support directly into the main interface, meaning users can easily upload their own custom maps, races, technologies, and buildings; those mods will then be added to a central server to be seeded into users' games. "We ourselves use the same system [as the users]," Wardell said.

"After Spore, it probably seems a lot less original," he added, laughing. "But we had the idea before Spore."

Yeah, Brad, except you failed.

[nenjin]

I find this pretty laughable. People angry or at least needing to get stuff off their chest get banned/nuked, while people excusing and/or rationalizing the release with a thread about them building a wall, with a swear in the title, gets left up. The whole release drama reminds of a person freaking out at a party, then two minutes later trying to be all smiles and overly friendly to try and win their way back in.

[forsaken1111]

From nenjin's link:

The point of the post the OP made was that shit happens. Unforseen problems, bugs and driver conflicts over a massive possible amount of system combinations, try as you might you cannot prepare for every scenario.

So the bland environments, lackluster setting, and general lack of... well I guess it's a lack of style? all of this was an unforeseen circumstance?

Master of Magic... lots of style, fun units, deep magic system. MORE RACES and races with actual differences beyond "+15% metal production" or "may use women as soldiers". In Master of Magic, which I still play to this day, I can inflict my own units with lycanthropy to make them stronger, and I can find gateways to an entirely new plane of existence.

In Elemental I can... summon a big rock giant. Enchant a city to give +1 food.

Bleh

[nenjin]

The only reason I don't rage more about it is that was all visible before I bought the game. I opted into a bland setting. It's just not made up for in very many places.

Although I'm enjoying my own custom faction now, a race of forest bandits led by a power hungry sorcerer.

[Granite26]

It doesn't feel to me like the engine has enough depth to support a lot of modding, at least not of the spore 'easy to add' variety that doesn't involve seriously hacking the engine.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but:

A: the heroes are simple, with no trait system other than 'has magic' and a list of vanilla combat stats.  There are no special abilities.

B: no matter how complicated the unit creation gets, everything still boils down to that tiny little tactical combat map.

C: the only terrain that matters are the special squares.

[Mephansteras]

Well, it's installed on my laptop now but I think I'm going to hold off on really trying it out for another week or so. Let them iron out the rough patches.

From what people have said so far...I think it's going to be a while before we truly see what this game is capable of. And a lot of that is probably going to come from talented modders.

[Fikes]

I find this pretty laughable. People angry or at least needing to get stuff off their chest get banned/nuked, while people excusing and/or rationalizing the release with a thread about them building a wall, with a swear in the title, gets left up. The whole release drama reminds of a person freaking out at a party, then two minutes later trying to be all smiles and overly friendly to try and win their way back in.

What a hilarious and accurate post. I am starting to like this nenjin guy. I immediately thought of my wife’s friends that I hate.

I agree that the setting/environment is bland. I think it is a fun idea that you are returning not only civilization to the world, but also “healing the land” so to speak. But why does everything have to be brown?

Not that it really matters, I have to play on a cloth map anyway, because on the normal map I get about 10fps according to fraps.

But I don’t really agree that the magic system is terrible. There just isn’t that much unexplored territory with magic. Same with items. What type of item can you add that expands opens rather than just giving a larger pool to try and min-max.

This really reminds me of the Jagged Alliance mod that adds 50,000 new weapons. At the end of a fight you have 30 different guns and 30 different types of ammo. You think you have the right one but it turns out you have 7.62x20mm when you needed 7.62x17mm. Once you get past that you have to do a bunch of detective work to figure out which gun is actually better. Lame. You spend more time on the inventory screen than on the shoot the enemy screen. More options doesn’t really add anything to game play.

[nenjin]

the heroes are simple, with no trait system other than 'has magic' and a list of vanilla combat stats.  There are no special abilities.

They have special abilities. Sometimes two or three. They're just not that good, and you have no control over it.

B: no matter how complicated the unit creation gets, everything still boils down to that tiny little tactical combat map.

Not really. Autobattle happens a lot. Tactical for me is more about minimizing casualties, because autobattle doesn't account for magic, and vulnerable characters tend to get caught in the press and killed. Tactical battles are actually, in some ways, totally superfluous. But it can let you achieve victory when you're outnumbered with proper tactics. It's entirely standard for 4x games and fantasy battles. I'm not seeing it play out any differently than HoMM, MoM, GalCiv, or any of that. Tactical battles are almost always winnable by virtue of direct control over your best powers, assuming you're reasonable about not biting off more than you can chew.

the only terrain that matters are the special squares.

Again, not true.

Terrain has a huge impact on movement rates. Natural terrain barriers like water and mountains have a large impact on your strategy and expansion. (And you can modify them. For example, I cut about 25 turns off a caravan route by simply raising a land bridge across a bay between two towns.) Forests outside your SoI serve as breeding grounds for monsters, and you can use them to predict trouble areas and problem spots. And then there are a crap ton of "special squares."

There just isn’t that much unexplored territory with magic. Same with items. What type of item can you add that expands opens rather than just giving a larger pool to try and min-max.

Items have room to grow, and so do spells. I just find their initial approach, and their implied commitment to something really cool, to be really lacking. I love magic, deep arcane systems, and this barely even meets the level of depth or fun of MoM's magic. And MoM's system is neither deep nor arcane. And really, it's that no one was tried to do anything unique with magic in the video game sphere in a long time. I would have accepted worked up magic with lots of effects and power. But we didn't even get that in large measure. I STILL haven't found the volcano spell, and when I do, it's not going to make up for the dozens of hours I waited for something cool.

More options doesn’t really add anything to game play.

Blanket statement is blanketing Options when they're done right and presented correctly add variety, customization and experimentation, and don't require a lot of detective work. I enjoy sitting there on pause personally, and actually thinking through mechanics to arrive at a decision. That's when I know a game has got me. If I can process what I can and will do without stopping, it's a shallow game to me.

In that sense, Elemental has got me. There is a lot to think about when you have three cities, two factions at war with you and are just about to up your adventuring level.

[Granite26]

B: no matter how complicated the unit creation gets, everything still boils down to that tiny little tactical combat map.

Not really. Autobattle happens a lot. Tactical for me is more about minimizing casualties, because autobattle doesn't account for magic, and vulnerable characters tend to get caught in the press and killed. Tactical battles are actually, in some ways, totally superfluous. But it can let you achieve victory when you're outnumbered with proper tactics. It's entirely standard for 4x games and fantasy battles. I'm not seeing it play out any differently than HoMM, MoM, GalCiv, or any of that. Tactical battles are almost always winnable by virtue of direct control over your best powers, assuming you're reasonable about not biting off more than you can chew.

I think you missed my point.  In MoM and MoO, the tactical combat space was... maybe twice as big.  You had enough time to rearrange your units and get more than 2 arrow shots off before they were up in your grill.  I've been in battles where I started 6 spaces from the enemy and the entire map was 7-8 squares wide.  Add to that Elementals propensity to put archers in the front row, and you've got issues.

[nenjin]

Well, they've made some tweaks which have really sped up tactical battles. Everyone moving two squares on average now and attacking up to 3 times means yeah, there is less time to plan. The size of battle fields seem semi variable. I've had some where it took the enemy three full turns to reach where my units had spawned.

I prefer it that way, honestly. There are lots of battles you out number them, but need to play it tactically so you don't get half your units killed. Having units crawl across a TB map to do that regularly was getting old. Plus, with the right combination of units and a strong caster, you don't even need powerful melee troops or archers until late game. The Summon Spy has a 10 true damage, attack-all spell that basically kills everything from level 2 down. Whole armies with 300+ combat rating, dead with one spell.

The unit placement at spawn is something they're still fiddling with. It doesn't feel that much different than MoM, I think the difference is you had to wait to get your whole army moving 2+ squares in the tactical battles. It's the default speed. I'm hoping they revisit battle fields too. There's a good start there, but they could be bigger and much more random and interesting.

[getter77]

Them spending so much time on modding tools and such annoys people like me who couldn't give a rat's ass what mod some random guy cooks up and just wants to play a fun game.

Hear hear.

 And as far as I can tell, I seem to be the last person on Earth referencing this stuff because I haven't seen or heard a word about it from anyone else.  This info was plastered all over the internet in 2008, just try googling, "elemental war of magic spore" and you'll see what I mean.

I pretty much remember this gist of this as well, as  one of the oddballs that followed things rather closely news/discussion wise up until the earliest of betas then lost track....I think it was roughly the same time period of revelation as walking Python 3.x support back to 2.x....then apparently this whole XML thing moreso...Hex battles were still in play...etc.