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Author Topic: Elemental - War of Magic  (Read 85593 times)

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #285 on: August 23, 2010, 10:02:26 pm »

Technically we'll never know if they released the game in an unfinished state.  Retailers messed up by breaking their street date, forcing Stardock to turn their attention to that instead of their Day 0 patch was was supposed to impliment and improve the gameplay with polish and unlocked features.

This is just bs. First off, street dates get broken all the time and no one forced them to release early. Second, you shouldn't send a piece of crap off to the cd manufacturers and just pray you fix everything by the street date. Third, there is absolutely no way that the two days they diverted releasing early were going to radically change anything. Seeing the details of the 0-day patch I'm also not impressed at all and two days would not have made a significant difference.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #286 on: August 23, 2010, 11:30:16 pm »

Patch is out, and claims significant improvements to the campaign and fixes of memory leaks and such.
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nenjin

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #287 on: August 23, 2010, 11:41:25 pm »

FWIW, I'm enjoying the sandbox much, more more. The research gives you reason to pause and think, and the semi-random layout works in that MoM sort of way. I'm really liking the research model, tbh, and how cities grow.

Definitely start with the sand box, don't even fool with the campaign. The irony? You get semi-tutorial-esqe notices in the sandbox but not in the campaign. How backasswards is that?
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alway

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #288 on: August 24, 2010, 12:49:09 am »

FWIW, I'm enjoying the sandbox much, more more. The research gives you reason to pause and think, and the semi-random layout works in that MoM sort of way. I'm really liking the research model, tbh, and how cities grow.

Definitely start with the sand box, don't even fool with the campaign. The irony? You get semi-tutorial-esqe notices in the sandbox but not in the campaign. How backasswards is that?
Campaign is borked beyond belief, but to be honest, that is what I expected. I didn't care for Stardock's GalCiv2 campaign, and I don't particularly care for this one. It's a 4X game though, and like any subset of the strategy genre, the campaigns really are one of the worst bits.

I haven't played since the Day 0 patch, but hopefully it fixed the crashing issues. There are a few nagging issues aside from those, but other than that it seems to be a great game overall. Assuming the patch does all it says it does, I would guess the game will get somewhere in the 80-90% range on average from reviews.
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Elven_ranger

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #289 on: August 24, 2010, 01:18:41 am »

Technically we'll never know if they released the game in an unfinished state.

In fact, we do. Brad Wardell (the CEO of Stardock) explicitly stressed in his development blog that you DO NOT want to play the RTM version. They knew it was bad. And that's a common practise in Stardock: he admitted they did exact same thing with GalCiv2. Still, that doesn't look like their invention; Paradox immediately comes to mind, and there should be more examples.

As to why release early... There is such a thing as a retail slot. You miss it, you wait for the next one. Their next one was in January. Guess they decided that's too much.


BTW, can anyone who got the copy describe the magic system they went with? Have they kept their promise of discarding the rock-paper-scissors system of "fire beats water"  bunch of identical spells (ice bolt = fire bolt) and replace it with something more creative, or not?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 01:21:07 am by Elven_ranger »
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nenjin

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #290 on: August 24, 2010, 02:01:58 am »

BTW, can anyone who got the copy describe the magic system they went with? Have they kept their promise of discarding the rock-paper-scissors system of "fire beats water"  bunch of identical spells (ice bolt = fire bolt) and replace it with something more creative, or not?

I don't know if they ever promised that. But it's pretty bad too, IMO, for a game about magic.

It goes like this. You pick your starting spell access from one of six books, and how many books you pick draws directly out of your points pool for assigning stats. They're very expensive. 

These are the books you start with, all the spells you can initially research are defined by this choice. You can research tech later on that makes it so you can find more spell books and learn the spells they offer...but so far that seems way later and somewhat random.

The books are, yes, you guessed it, Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Death and Life Maigc, Enchantment and Time. Your choice of access to life or death magic is based on which faction you play, humans or fallen. Humans get life magic, Fallen get death. In that sense, life and death magic are freebie books.

Between campaign and sand box so far, I've seen..

-Teleport to square in friendly influence sphere
-Summon Bear, Little Imp, Wildling
-Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Arcane Arrow
-A 3x3 fire attack spell, Infernal
-Shield Ally, Shield City from magical attack
-Reduce city output, double city food consumption (curse)
-+1 City Resource/Food
-Make a square in tactical battle inaccessible
-Double a unit's strength
-Some others that aren't cool enough to remember.

I've only got two books and am only at Spell Level 5 though.

Then there are the magic shards in the world that when you build a city near them and encompass them in your influence sphere, you can build on them, and it increases the effectiveness of all spells associated with the shard. There are other spells and techs that play off shard possession too.

You can imbue your champions with spell casting ability, by spending your essence stat. Essence, however, defines your max mana pool and mana regen, so it's quite a trade off. You can buy your essence back up by spending your level up points on it though.

Getting new spells is also kind of lifeless and devoid of flavor. You have Arcane Research points. These just pile up. When you have enough, a dialog window pops up and goes "Do you want to learn a spell from this level, or research access to higher level of spells?" Then you pick a spell to research, forget about it since it takes a good long while, and...yeah. MoM at least had the fun of a neat looking spell book and interesting if not always effective spells. What should be the most interesting and flavorful part of the Elemental is fairly bland.

So far in the sand box, where they don't give you a sovereign with ridiculously high stats, magic is pretty meh mechanically too. It's damage is capped by your intelligence, and the damage range is huge. Like...10 to 100% damage when you attack. The rate at which melee gets better because of advances in equipment research relegates combat magic in the early game to low damage, mana limited archery.

I'm sure magic later on is better, and starting with books that offer offensive spells is probably more exciting, but yeah, overall, magic is pretty damn boring so far.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 02:10:24 am by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Elven_ranger

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #291 on: August 24, 2010, 02:11:53 am »

It goes like this.
<...>
I'm sure magic later on is better, and starting with books that offer offensive spells is probably more exciting, but yeah, overall, magic is pretty damn boring so far.

Thanks for a detailed write-up. Yeah, sounds rather uninspired so far. BW promised "numerous content updates" in future, so if that's the one promise he keeps, maybe the situation will improve.

Otherwise, fan mods sound like the only salvation for the game.

One question - is there a "vs element" bonus\penalty for elemental magic spells (like fire golem gets double the damage from ice, half from fire)?
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Rift

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #292 on: August 24, 2010, 11:03:21 am »

Well, so far i have very mixed feelings, i got the newest patch that came out today [or late yesterday], and while the game seems decent, i can never get very far without a crash, plus there are some dual-monitor issues [i have dual monitors].. but really.. if i could just not have crashes i would play it..
//waiting for next patch before attempting to play again.
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alway

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #293 on: August 24, 2010, 11:08:22 am »

IMO the magic is pretty fun. I created a character with all the spellboks I could, and it would seem the best one early on is the summoning book. Summoned creatures are very handy early on, since they are relatively powerful and have no upkeep costs (unlike regular units).

Hopefully they fix the crashes soon, since it seems to be crashing to the desktop more often than it was when I last played in Beta 2. But it's Stardock, so my guess is they will be working nearly 24 hours a day to fix the bugs until most are gone. But at least the autosave feature is robust!

edit: checking their site, it seems 1.01 was NOT the 0-day patch. That will be coming out today supposedly. Which means these issues will hopefully be resolved.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 11:10:29 am by alway »
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forsaken1111

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #294 on: August 24, 2010, 11:12:30 am »

I still think its cool I can raise and lower mountains or drop land into the ocean from the beginning of the game.
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alway

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #295 on: August 24, 2010, 11:17:50 am »

Definately. Nothing like terraforming yourself into an island nation.
Although the AI can do it too, so you aren't exactly safe on your artificially built islands.
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GaelicVigil

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #296 on: August 24, 2010, 11:48:16 am »

Assuming the patch does all it says it does, I would guess the game will get somewhere in the 80-90% range on average from reviews.

80 to 90 percent?  I don't think that's going to happen. I would wager it will come out somewhere in the 60% range for most reviewers.

Gaming media is extremely sensitive when it comes to polish and presentation - this is what they're going to look at first and foremost.  This game lacks a tutorial, the interface is very cumbersome and abnormal, there are memory leaks, crashes, and lots and lots of bugs.  The campaign is extremely short and half-broken, there is very little content, and multiplayer didn't even ship with tactical battles included.  What really blows my mind is how they couldn't get random map generation to work properly.  I mean, come on, "random maps"??  Games have had these since Sim City, even amateur developers do this stuff in their spare time.  That is completely unacceptable.

Now aside from the inability to even get the very basics right in a 4x game, they have left out nearly every one of their ground-breaking features, such as the online modding network.  These reviewers don't have short memories, they are going to remember all the promises. And to top it all off, when they see that Stardock can't even get the fundamentals to work, it's going to be tough for these reviewers to let that slide.

When it comes right down to it, the only thing they actually did do right was the cloth map and the cell shading.  Underneath that, there's really nothing special there at all - nothing that hasn't been done by the 4x genre (and better) for decades. 

It's really hard to understand how a company that wowed so many people with GalCiv 2, could screw up so badly on this.  Now, I bought GalCiv 2 within days of it's retail release, and it was a pretty good game.  The interface worked alright, there were few bugs, and the game-play was very deep, so I don't buy the argument that all of Stardock's games only become playable after 6 months.  This was not the case with Gal Civ 2 at all.  I don't get it, the developers must have taken a stupid pill since then, and forgot how to make strategy games.
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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #297 on: August 24, 2010, 12:02:47 pm »

Campaign is a terrible idea if you want to get a grasp of what the game is really like.

I highly suggest you don't play it, and just start a skirmish or two.

Good fun going around doing quests and stuff while your city is building up.
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BigD145

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #298 on: August 24, 2010, 12:52:55 pm »

Two continents
East and West
East ruled by fallen empires

Uh, Cold War much?
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Fikes

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #299 on: August 24, 2010, 01:09:22 pm »

I think the tutorial messages you got were from yesterday's patch, they would probably be campaign now too.

I had some fun with the game last night, but it seriously plays and looks like shit. Nothing pisses me off more than when a game looks bad and runs bad. Really? How many polygons are you drawing? It is a god damn turn based game. Nothing happens unless you input a command, FUUUUUUUUUUU

I bought this game even though I had doubts about it, and I don’t regret it. I love 4x games. It can’t really be called cookie cutter because there are simply not enough 4x games on the market. It doesn’t do anything special, mind you, but it is still one of the few to come out this year. Ignore the hype fail and get ready to learn a clunky system. If you do, you’ll enjoy the game.

That being said, what the fuck is going on in my kingdom? General rants and questions to follow.

 I really dislike the end turn mechanic. You should have to press a button to end your turn. Is there an option for that somewhere?

What is with the total lack of hot keys? Space or w should end a unit's turn.

Anyone know where I can find a guide? Maybe a list of which spells go with what circle? I didn't even realize how I got life magic. I played an evil empire and was shocked to find I didn't have teleport.

What Sovereign builds do you guys use? I generally pass on equipment because points are so precious.  I love the skill organized, it seems incredibly powerful. I get the summoning, enchantment, air, and water, then dump the last of my points in intelligence. I play female since males are so common and I assume one day I’ll figure out how to marry…

I think next time I play (I have started over 6 times because I don’t know what I am doing) I am going to get the +1 food spell right off the bat, that way I don’t have to wait 6 turns or what ever to build a farm.

Speaking of farms though, what does your population do for you other than level up your city? Do they pay taxes? I know you consume them when you recruit armies.

Are wargs and horses a resource like Ore and Materials? Do you have to research one of the adventuring skills to locate them?

Could someone explain essence in more detail? If I build the +25% essence building do I regen mana faster? If I summon a bear does it use up my essence? Where can I see my essence?

How is babby formed?

What the hell is a sion unit?


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