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[Ioric Kittencuddler]

You know, I like games that don't have a week-long learning period sometimes.  If I'm going to drop some cash on a game while I'm employed, it had better damn well let me start having fun before I waste ten hours of work learning how it works.

Well then lucky for you that's practically every game made in the last ten years.

[Pathos]

You know, I like games that don't have a week-long learning period sometimes.  If I'm going to drop some cash on a game while I'm employed, it had better damn well let me start having fun before I waste ten hours of work learning how it works.

I don't really think that's how it should work with 4X games, though. And Spore definitely should've been more in-depth.

[x2yzh9]

Woah woah woah! Let's not let this turn into a flame war! Let's make this discussion about E:WoM. Starting after this post, we ain't talking about it anymore! Cmon' guys, do it with me!
 *smug*

[Pathos]

Woah woah woah! Let's not let this turn into a flame war! Let's make this discussion about E:WoM. Starting after this post, we ain't talking about it anymore! Cmon' guys, do it with me!
 *smug*

FFS KIDS AND FFS GAYS AND FFS MINORITY GROUPS AND FFS WOMEN AND FFS RAGING NOOBS FFFS

RAAAAAAAAAAGE

[Sowelu]

The whole realism versus fun thing is pure bullshit perpetrated by people who for some reason want to paint anyone who enjoys realistic games as some sort of bizarre backwards lunatics that hate fun.

I dunno.  I think I worked out the all core mechanics of Civ 1/2/3/4/AC, both Master of Orions, GalCiv2, and AI War in about an hour each, and was disgusted by Spore.  Is that enough "can play complex games" street cred for you?

Malkari was a lot closer to the hyper-realism being described here, I think, with all your bases being on asteroids that orbited at different speeds (and each had different value to different guilds/races) with different characteristics, and a ship-designing and research system that still rivals the best other commercial and indie games I've ever seen.  It took a ton of time to pick up, and it wasn't that great in various other ways, so it was a big time investment that didn't pay off.  Also, look at Aurora.  If I ever bought a game like that--even if it was highly polished and not buggy--I would be SERIOUSLY pissed, and return it, because once you get too far into simulation of fiddly little details, it's not a goddamn game anymore.

I'm just saying that I have enough time in my life to commit to maybe one DF-style game in a blue moon.  Super complex games don't sell all that well because...well...even among people like us, we have enough time and capacity to figure out twenty Halos in the same time it would take to pick up two Dwarf Fortresses.  Money is spent accordingly.

Er, yeah, that went seriously off topic.

I'm sure that E:WoM will fit comfortably within my acceptable complexity zone, and I seriously look forwards to it.  I'm not pre-ordering it right now because staying up until 4 AM playing a beta is not good for my new job.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

The whole realism versus fun thing is pure bullshit perpetrated by people who for some reason want to paint anyone who enjoys realistic games as some sort of bizarre backwards lunatics that hate fun.

I dunno.  I think I worked out the all core mechanics of Civ 1/2/3/4/AC, both Master of Orions, GalCiv2, and AI War in about an hour each, and was disgusted by Spore.  Is that enough "can play complex games" street cred for you?

Malkari was a lot closer to the hyper-realism being described here, I think, with all your bases being on asteroids that orbited at different speeds (and each had different value to different guilds/races) with different characteristics, and a ship-designing and research system that still rivals the best other commercial and indie games I've ever seen.  It took a ton of time to pick up, and it wasn't that great in various other ways, so it was a big time investment that didn't pay off.  Also, look at Aurora.  If I ever bought a game like that--even if it was highly polished and not buggy--I would be SERIOUSLY pissed, and return it, because once you get too far into simulation of fiddly little details, it's not a goddamn game anymore.

I'm just saying that I have enough time in my life to commit to maybe one DF-style game in a blue moon.  Super complex games don't sell all that well because...well...even among people like us, we have enough time and capacity to figure out twenty Halos in the same time it would take to pick up two Dwarf Fortresses.  Money is spent accordingly.

Er, yeah, that went seriously off topic.

I'm sure that E:WoM will fit comfortably within my acceptable complexity zone, and I seriously look forwards to it.  I'm not pre-ordering it right now because staying up until 4 AM playing a beta is not good for my new job.

Not only is it off topic, it also doesn't have anything to do with the post you're quoting.   I learned to play Aces Over Europe and Aces of the Pacific when I was a little kid.  Operation Flashpoint wasn't that hard to learn, neither was Silent Hunter III, or Men of War.  Having realism and/or attention to detail does not have to mean ten hour learning curves or whatever other ridiculous notions you seem to have about them.  That's a proven fact.  Just because you feel the need to spout such absurdities does not change that.  Simply having an intuitive interface and decent in game instructions (which Dwarf Fortress definitely does not have) makes a world of difference.

[Lemunde]

Reminds me a lot of Age of Wonders, judging from the screenshots.  Ok, graphics-wise they're night and day but I can tell the gameplay is going to be very similar.  Which is good.  There aren't many games out there that can call themselves an AoW clone.

[Virex]

The whole realism versus fun thing is pure bullshit perpetrated by people who for some reason want to paint anyone who enjoys realistic games as some sort of bizarre backwards lunatics that hate fun.

I dunno.  I think I worked out the all core mechanics of Civ 1/2/3/4/AC, both Master of Orions, GalCiv2, and AI War in about an hour each, and was disgusted by Spore.  Is that enough "can play complex games" street cred for you?

Malkari was a lot closer to the hyper-realism being described here, I think, with all your bases being on asteroids that orbited at different speeds (and each had different value to different guilds/races) with different characteristics, and a ship-designing and research system that still rivals the best other commercial and indie games I've ever seen.  It took a ton of time to pick up, and it wasn't that great in various other ways, so it was a big time investment that didn't pay off.  Also, look at Aurora.  If I ever bought a game like that--even if it was highly polished and not buggy--I would be SERIOUSLY pissed, and return it, because once you get too far into simulation of fiddly little details, it's not a goddamn game anymore.

I'm just saying that I have enough time in my life to commit to maybe one DF-style game in a blue moon.  Super complex games don't sell all that well because...well...even among people like us, we have enough time and capacity to figure out twenty Halos in the same time it would take to pick up two Dwarf Fortresses.  Money is spent accordingly.

Er, yeah, that went seriously off topic.

I'm sure that E:WoM will fit comfortably within my acceptable complexity zone, and I seriously look forwards to it.  I'm not pre-ordering it right now because staying up until 4 AM playing a beta is not good for my new job.

Not only is it off topic, it also doesn't have anything to do with the post you're quoting.   I learned to play Aces Over Europe and Aces of the Pacific when I was a little kid.  Operation Flashpoint wasn't that hard to learn, neither was Silent Hunter III, or Men of War.  Having realism and/or attention to detail does not have to mean ten hour learning curves or whatever other ridiculous notions you seem to have about them.  That's a proven fact.  Just because you feel the need to spout such absurdities does not change that.  Simply having an intuitive interface and decent in game instructions (which Dwarf Fortress definitely does not have) makes a world of difference.

Difficulty =/= Depth and Depth =/= great gameplay. Some games are great because of their depth, others drown in it. If an RTT would present me with 20 different choices for each class of weapons for my soldiers (who naturaly have different aptitudes for each gun), I'd be worried sick about picking the wrong gun, especialy if the game doesn't document it too well (which happens all too often). It's depth, but it's more of a nuisance, because the game would play the same if there were only 5 clearly different choices per class. Hell I can hardly decide between warhammers and axes in DF, since I don't know which one's best in what situation. Multiply that by a factor 10 and you get why I'm a bit shy of "deep" games sometimes.

[Lemunde]

So how 'bout that War of Magic?  A lot of good stuff in that there War of Magic.

[Boksi]

So how 'bout that War of Magic?  A lot of good stuff in that there War of Magic.

Elemental is the spiritual successor of Master of Magic, a much older game. Curiously enough, Age of Wonders was also the spiritual successor of Master of Magic. I wonder why the games seem similar?

[Pathos]

Hmm, I can't preorder with my ENGLISH debit card. And it's not possible to use paypal for it. I am annoyed.

[Nirur Torir]

Hmm, I can't preorder with my ENGLISH debit card. And it's not possible to use paypal for it. I am annoyed.

Paypal doesn't work for it at the moment because they don't charge people until after they can download the beta. I believe they will allow Paypal for a week or so when the beta switches major versions, allowing more people into it.

[Pathos]

Paypal doesn't work for it at the moment because they don't charge people until after they can download the beta. I believe they will allow Paypal for a week or so when the beta switches major versions, allowing more people into it.

Next version is next month, right?

[nenjin]

So, people were asking what the game was like. And Youtube provides.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmiY5n8gY5A - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ESInA8Q-ww&feature=related - Part 2

I get a strong "Gal Civ with magic" vibe from it so far. Some cool sounding parts. Custom designing units, marrying off children to others to form alliances. No real information on the magic yet. Looking forward to it. Not sure if I want to preorder or not to start dinking around with it though.

[Pathos]

I hope to god they get diplomacy right.

None of this, "You have destroyed my enemies, married my ugliest daughter and provided me with foot massages from gold golems, BUT I STILL HATE YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE OF ANOTHER FACTION TO ME / YOUR EMPIRE IS TOO LARGE / YOU WEREN'T VERY NICE TO YOUR ALLIES" like the Total War games usually have.

Crap usually makes no sense.