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Author Topic: Elemental - War of Magic  (Read 85595 times)

alway

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #315 on: August 24, 2010, 10:05:40 pm »

Heh, yeah, it will be out Soon(tm). It should clear up those memory leaks.
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Viken

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #316 on: August 24, 2010, 10:18:14 pm »

People have already started downloading the update via Impulse Reactor, so it should be up for just about everyone about now.  But yea, the long-long list of updates include six or so memory leaks and crash fixes. xD Huzzah!
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alway

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #317 on: August 24, 2010, 10:28:05 pm »

Here's the update thread by the way: http://forums.elementalgame.com/392088

Also, this may help for memory leakage: "If you have an ATI card with Windows 7 64-bit, make sure you have updated to the latest drivers. We have verified with AMD that the pre-July cards had a memory issue."
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 10:39:38 pm by alway »
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Shadowlord

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #318 on: August 25, 2010, 01:07:40 am »

For those who don't remember or weren't around when this game was first announced, they were talking about a system where players on the network could instantly share their creations in a "Spore"-like fashion.  In fact, they even claimed that you would be able to have mods and fan content download/streamed to your system for your maps automatically before world generation.  In this system they said you would be able to set parameters on what kind of content you wanted (like only allowing high-rated content), or even hand pick cool stuff you wanted from a sorted/searchable list (not unlike Spore's creature database). 

They said outright, basically, that the reason why they were only adding in two "human" races was because they expected fan-made content to begin streaming into your game almost immediately from launch.  This, they claimed, would provide the meat of the content for your game and would keep things fresh.  With this kind of instant mod sharing, they touted that "no two games would ever be alike" because you would constantly be facing new monsters, factions, and items whenever you generated a new game.

I remember that, actually!

Also, I have a policy: *Never* pre-order a game. So I'm rather glad I avoided buying Elemental, having seen the apparent train-wreck it turned into. If I want to play a sequel to Master of Magic, I'll stick to AoW2: SM, I think.

That being said, I was leery of Elemental from the beginning anyways, simply because it was being developed by Stardock. Despite everything they said about how great it was going to be...

They had also made GalCiv 2 sound great, and I went out and got it because of that, and honestly, I thought it was terribly boring, with nothing really to do. They took away all the real choice and genericized the tech tree so that everything was just simple rock-paper-scissors... And then I went "Well! If I can't use technology for strategy, I'll use the game rules for it!" ... I won a war by designing rather fast transport ships and warships, parking them out of sight of the border with someone I wanted to take over, counting how many planets they had, making enough ships to take them all over, and then declaring war on them and in one turn sending my ships around the enemy fleets, straight to their planets, wiping out the defense fleets at their planets with my fleets (each ship at their planets defended as one individual ship vs my entire fleet), if there was even anyone at the planets - most of their ships were at the border or near the planets, and then sending my transports to capture all their planets in that same turn.

Result: I had flown past large defense fleets, with them unable to react to my invading fleets. I flew past space stations that only provided a pitiful defense bonus to defending fleets, but did no actual defending. I destroyed individual ships that couldn't actually fight together because to do so would have required wasting a crucial planet development tile on a building that solely allowed just that. And then my transports landed and conquered every planet, and all their fleets simply vanished into thin air and the empire ceased to exist. And then I said "This is such bullshit" and quit the game. There was no reason I should have been able to simply fly around the enemy without them being able to stop me, or for the fleets near their planets to not react to my approach by intercepting me before I reached their planets. Had any of their ships been able to move (it was my turn, so hey, everyone else is frozen), they would have destroyed my fleets.

I much prefer a system where solar systems are separated and if you fly into an enemy system you will have to fight the enemy in order to get to the planet or planets. You shouldn't just be able to bypass them because it isn't their turn.

Anyways, that was getting a bit off topic, but it was things like that which made me not particularly fond of how Stardock does things and the way they tend to hype their games as if they're the best thing ever, without any regard to how things might not work well in practice.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 01:20:37 am by Shadowlord »
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nenjin

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #319 on: August 25, 2010, 04:49:54 am »

So after a good few hours with the sandbox, my needs for this game to better are as follows:

-More content. More spells, more troops types, more abilities, deeper tech trees, more equipment, MORE.

-On gear. The magical equipment is a nice touch. Unfortunately the regular equipment is very limited. That I've seen...4 sword types with little to no trade offs. Two axe types with no trade offs. Two spear types. 4 armor classes. Two bow types. Custom units are a lot of fun and a great aspect to the game, they need to extended how long you can get engrossed doing it.

-On units. Virtually all units are based on your race. The extra races you can recruit, the rock dog things, dark ones, spiders ect.... don't give you that end game feeling like other 4x games. Where are MY golems, my dragons, my demons, ect... Like gear, it's a good start but peters out way too early. And my units can get mana, but I can't produce spell-casting units? Have I just not played enough, or can we not create priests and wizards to at least heal people and throw weak fireballs?

-Spells. Where are you guys finding these mountain moving spells? I took Enchantments and Summoning to start, found ONE book of generic combat spells, and that's it.

There needs to be more strategic spells. Like attack spells that can be cast off the strategic view at units in range, long term effect spells like a storm that slows movement, or an ice storm. There needs to be freaking more, in even area, both strategic and tactical. This is a major failing of the game, I've said until I'm about blue in the face. Half of spells don't have a visual effect (certainly not enchantments) and while graphics are a minor concern to me, it would help me remember and get into the fact I've been enchanting my cities, if they glowed or sparkled or something.

-Quests. I've counted maybe 6 quests so far in my game. My quests are starting to repeat now, although I still have level 4 quests to unlock. So far the quests have been the broken midnight stones quest, multiple alchemist quests to get those stat enhancing potions, the Sliver Flute quest, and one where you get shards from a statue. They talked a lot about their quests and so far, I'm not seeing a lot of depth, variety or interest factor.

-Spawning monsters. They need to dial this back. The non-kingdom areas are CRAWLING with monsters. In my game, my first city was protected by a mountain range, turning the west path into a single tile road hugging the coast. Beyond that is where I built my second city. There's still a gap in the influence sphere between them, that happens to fall right over this natural choke point. And monster are breeding there like it's a fucking orgy. It's gotten so bad I've had to garrison units on the road to protect the caravans. What's annoying me this TINY area of uncontrolled map space produces monsters non-stop. I like that uncontrolled areas become more dangerous. But they need to cap how small of an area that applies to.

-Customization. Again, more. More colors and clothing types. More fair styles. Different colored armor, We need to be able to have a hood and not be forced to be bald. More poses. The only thing they DONT need more of is backgrounds for unit cards. Shockingly, they have plenty there.

-City specialization. Again, like almost all 4x games, cities do not stand out from each other. The only thing that really distinguishes them in Elemental is their size and growth rate. You build all the buildings, except the Civilization achievement ones, and they all turn out the same. As far as specializing them for gildar, resources or mana....why bother? There's no NEED, and the game doesn't force you to make choices, for example, you can build the Temple of the Sion in every city if you want. (Why you would care, I don't know, Sions are mysteriously worthless.)

-Food. I have a real problem with food as a resource. Cities don't produce enough of it on their own, and therefore city building is heavily influenced by available fertile land. You don't get PENALIZED for having less food in a meaningful way, your population doesn't starve. And that's good, because I hate managing food. But city growth is sslllooooowwwww without extra housing, and in your rush to build housing, you overlook some other buildings that require food to build. I don't like the city build menu at all either, it needs to be organized instead of just lining up all the icons next to each other. Population, by extension, also barely impacts your military capability. You would have to work your ass off to really put a dent in your population by recruiting, and the gildar upkeep would crush you long before that. There's just some mechanics floating around that seem like they're there because you expect it of a 4x game, but don't really have any impact on game play strategy.

-Tech trees. I'm both liking and disliking them. On the one hand, it's cool that you don't know exactly what you'll get with each breakthrough. On the other, not knowing if you're DONE with a tech tree is kind of an issue. The tech trees, as far as I can see, are actually really short. What conceals that is the fact you can research some items multiple times, to disguise the fact your tech tree is actually empty. So again, I'll make my call for MORE stuff in the tech tree. For example:

Military:
Basic equipment, armor, weapons, medium armor, medium weapons, ranged, 3-man squads, training 1, 2, 3, 4, advanced equipment heavy weapons, slayer weapons, navies, seiging, heavy armor, mounted warfare....did I miss any? I don't think I did, since magic weapons and armor are in the sorcery tree. That's the whole combat tree, more or less. Adventuring tree is mostly just a gate keeper to the a) strength of monsters and b) the quest level of sites you can start. One or two pieces of research might get you another unit type, slightly better map revealing or one other thing. While I LIKE having control over the monster levels and questing, a whole tree devoted to that seems meh. They really need to punch up all the tech trees. They're all solid starts, and the randomness of the unlocks is a great mechanics, but it's being backed up by not enough content for a day long or more sandbox game. On the normal AI, I maxed out civilization before I'd even seen the boundaries of another sovreign's kingdom.

I will say that the sandbox feels EPIC on a large map. It's taken hundreds of turns just to explore and secure my half of the world, I haven't even looked into the east yet. But the AIs are stupid. One civ that I hadn't met died to another, and when I reloaded my game, it somehow managed to not die. The AI I can see, Kraxis, has been bombarding me for requests for a NAP or trade for 300 turns. He has 8 kids, that I can see. They all run around by themselves. His units are unexperienced and pathetically weak compared to mine. Even his sovreign with his bad ass golem will fall to my armies.

So yeah, epic sense of a world, epic growth and domination of said world, but everything else that backs it up is average to mediocre to terrible.

I haven't yet posted any feedback on their forum, I'm giving myself ample time to look stuff over before I do. And I'm planning on giving feedback as it relates to the next 6 months. I will say that most of the annoying interface and camera stuff that shipped with the game was quickly addressed, which made tactical battles not annoying as fuck. I'm hoping they show the same enthusiasm for adding to the game as they do fixing the easy stuff.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #320 on: August 25, 2010, 05:01:27 am »

Creating a wizard is a first level spell called transfer essence Imbue Champion. You may just not have gotten the spellbook... I usually take all of the books I can.

Raising/lowering land is also a spell I started with.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 05:25:10 am by forsaken1111 »
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Moogie

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #321 on: August 25, 2010, 05:22:35 am »

It's a real shame that things have apparently turned out not so great with this game. I'd only heard about it a few days ago and was actually getting quite excited as I read about the features and whatnot. I did plan on torrenting it to see whether it was worth a buy, but now it hardly seems worth the download, let alone purchase.

Back to the grand old search, I suppose. :(
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forsaken1111

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #322 on: August 25, 2010, 05:26:34 am »

It's a real shame that things have apparently turned out not so great with this game. I'd only heard about it a few days ago and was actually getting quite excited as I read about the features and whatnot. I did plan on torrenting it to see whether it was worth a buy, but now it hardly seems worth the download, let alone purchase.

Back to the grand old search, I suppose. :(
Not worth the download? really? You'll get at least a few hours of enjoyment out of it, and it isn't as bad as some of these people are making it out to be. I think a lot of the sentiment here stems from features which were promised 2 years ago and cut due to development constraints.
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fenrif

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #323 on: August 25, 2010, 07:17:40 am »

Rock Paper Shotgun is running an article about how the "gamers bill of rights" is not longer up on the stardock homepage. Remember thats the list of things that gamers deserve to have in their games... One of the top three was: "Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state."

Guess strdock thought it was kind of embarassing having that up there after this games release? :P
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janekk

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #324 on: August 25, 2010, 07:20:46 am »

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forsaken1111

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #325 on: August 25, 2010, 07:45:54 am »

Stardock rescinds its own player's bill of rights

Ouch...

(Yes I know someone else mentioned this, thought I would provide a link.)

In case you're curious... the full 'gamer's bill of rights' that they so proudly put up:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 07:49:27 am by forsaken1111 »
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nenjin

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #326 on: August 25, 2010, 08:37:11 am »

I was on the way here to post that exact same thing.

Amazing what happens when you:

a) decide you're writing epic fantasy and no one likes it
b) invest serious money in publishing said fantasy, and suddenly you have a business partner
c) get butt hurt when you make a lot of noise about being an open indie game developer, with a bill of rights, and then people call you to task for it.

You opened the door Stardock. If this was seriously BW attempt to move into the AAA game range, they royally fucked it up.

Quote
I did plan on torrenting it to see whether it was worth a buy, but now it hardly seems worth the download, let alone purchase.

It's worth the download in it's current state, for at least one good 4 to 6 hour play through. Hopefully it will be worth the $50 later on after they go back to work on it. (He did say this will be a game developed for years to come.) That all assume Brad and Stardock don't have a melt down from all the criticism and can find their groove again.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Heavenfall

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #327 on: August 25, 2010, 08:40:18 am »

Apparently I was mistaken with what caravans do. The roads they produce don't up the gildar production, but rather the food production (so if you get a town with food production, build roads between that and every other city).

I disagree about the city customization, by the way. In my opinion, cities after level 2 become almost completely dependant on what world resources they have in their proximity, and what buildings they have. This combined with the bonuses for levelling up a city makes it very important to specialize your cities.

Oh yeah, I found out what sions were. It's a unit (possibly for empire only) with 25 health, 1 health per combat turn regen, immunity to offensive spells, a usable sprint ability (seems broken) and a usable  ability that deals 3 times the normal damage when they attack. They have no defense whatsoever, and their passive attack is quite low (9). It costs only gold to produce.

Yeah, the game needs a lot more content. Definitely stay away from the purchase button for now. Btw, are like ALL the quests broken or something? I keep ending up in dead ends in almost every single quest. The only quest I got to work was the one where you find a dragon egg, and even that was bugged (I had to return the egg with the same guy that started the quest).

Edit again: Has ANYONE found elementium? I haven't seen a single node in any game I've played.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 08:54:48 am by Heavenfall »
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Upon him I will visit famine and a fire, until all around him desolation rings
and all the demons in the outer dark look on amazed and recognize
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nenjin

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #328 on: August 25, 2010, 09:04:20 am »

Quote
I disagree about the city customization, by the way. In my opinion, cities after level 2 become almost completely dependant on what world resources they have in their proximity, and what buildings they have. This combined with the bonuses for levelling up a city makes it very important to specialize your cities.

I have three cities, didn't specialize a one of them, and I have materials and metal coming out of my ears. I'm a little short on gold, but that's because I have ~15 units of crack troops out in the world with a lot of overhead.

I like that cities are tied to resources, but I don't like how Food is the major one that you can't get around. You need excess food so a city can grow at slower than a snail's pace, and without building near fertile land, you won't get a lot of extra food, even researching the upgrades several times. The food mechanic needs to change, it just don't track cleanly IMO or flow with game play.

Quote
Oh yeah, I found out what sions were. It's a unit (possibly for empire only) with 25 health, 1 health per combat turn regen, immunity to offensive spells, a usable sprint ability (seems broken) and a usable  ability that deals 3 times the normal damage when they attack. They have no defense whatsoever, and their passive attack is quite low (9). It costs only gold to produce.

That's a lot of shit they didn't even bother to put in the Hiergammon. Like, a lot of shit. I'd expect that from an end game goodie, not some widely available unit.

Quote
Btw, are like ALL the quests broken or something? I keep ending up in dead ends in almost every single quest. The only quest I got to work was the one where you find a dragon egg, and even that was bugged (I had to return the egg with the same guy that started the quest).

Edit again: Has ANYONE found elementium? I haven't seen a single node in any game I've played.

I haven't found any, and I haven't found that many quests either. (I don't shoot up on the Adventure tree because it just ends up dumping a ton of nasty monsters on you.) The Midnight Stone Quest is apparently working in 1.05, though.

The Gamer's Bill of Rights is still up btw, I think they just took down its associated link with Elemental? I dunno, the link is still active though.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Heavenfall

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Re: Elemental - War of Magic
« Reply #329 on: August 25, 2010, 09:10:49 am »

I really like the food mechanic, it's the one thing I think they got more or less right. It's the only thing limiting cities, as you said. Edit: That ties into the whole specialization thing. If you can only upgrade so many cities, it becomes really important which ones you choose. It also means you can't just spam cities to get influence all over the map (Ai did that in beta3 it was lol)
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 09:14:04 am by Heavenfall »
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Upon him I will visit famine and a fire, until all around him desolation rings
and all the demons in the outer dark look on amazed and recognize
that vengeance is the business of a dwarf
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