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[Fishbreath]

I doubt many armies of 10,000 orcs are going to be roaming the postapocalypse. They're not really going for the "massive armies" feel, if I recall correctly.

That had been a goal originally, actually, but got left behind at some point along the road, along with a lot of the other features I was looking forward to (beta tester since the beginning), like the fancier economy and the like. Honestly, of the Stardock-published games that I've been in on since the early days (Sins of a Solar Empire, Demigod), I'm the most worried about how this one is going to be received.

[nenjin]

Hrm, that's a disturbingly coherent and rational complaint. I feel.....fear....

My biggest problems with Stardock games has always been the complexity level of any said feature. Sure, they have this, and that, and this other thing...but each feature was only interesting in how it interacted with the strategic situation of the moment. Sure, at some point you might want to specialize a planet because at the time it makes sense, but when you're just building up power...?  Every city is a clone of the next. Every tree is you just mowing down the requirements. Every battle is overkill. 

The game should be as interesting, and fun, on easy as it is on hard, I guess is what I'm saying. If I get bored conquering the world or the universe on easy, having the AI breathing down my neck only makes stuff tactically interesting. The game takes longer only I have the benefit of losing, and there's no real reason to play again other than "Oh, wouldn't it be interesting if I have +50% production at start and -20% population growth....". To me that's not a deep system that will last me years. That's usually why I never play more than one easy game of many 4x games.

So I've been watching Elemental's city stuff closely, because that's always been where I have problems with 4x games. I'm not sure what I think on it yet, other than it seems like all cities can't turn into metropolises, which is a good thing, and are important for what resources they fall near. More important than in MoM anyways, since they're scarcer and are tied into the item and unit system.

I'm not happy about what I've seen of magic, at all, but I hope there is a huge battery of spells, that will at least make up for the completely bland and standard treatment they've given it. I'm underwhelmed by the demonstration of Magic in a game with MAGIC in the title, ffs. And I'm not really that thrilled with the idea of micro managing equipment on BOTH my main character, supporting heroes AND schlub military units. I can't decide if Elemental is trying to be a 4x game, or trying to be a turn-based hero game. The inventory and item management has just sounded and looked tedious to me from the beginning.

I can deal with not having 10k person battles. But I don't want to be bored, I don't want the same generic path to victory or experience of playing each time, and I don't want to be bogged down by tedious micromanagement and detail. We'll see. There's a lot I do like about the game though.

And seriously, one thing that annoys me more than anything is when game devs are so in love with their own IP, they start getting distracted by trying to write books and all that completely secondary stuff, while the game is in development. I know Random is helping them create actual content, but...for the love god...make the game first. Sell the game. Sell stuff to fans. If the game is flat and boring and generic, no one is gonna read the fiction. And I want to know that people trying to sell me a great game spent all their time making it, and not trying to get a book deal going. Anyone remember Vanguard? Same thing happened there. They were convinced they had an amazing setting that would wow everyone...and no one bought into it at all. 

[Viken]

I share some of your skeptism, Nenjin, especially about a game this hyped.  But its been stated in previews and interviews time and again that this game is more for those of us that want a deeper, in-depth game that can only come from a PC game.  Personally, I find the ability to singulary outfit your soldiers and 'heroes' to be a nifty change over the bland 'I'm going to mass produce this unit and just spam the hell out of my enemy'. 

The city design, though, is probably something I'm looking forward too. I hate how you can create a city in Civ 4, and then turn aorund and mass-produce upgrades that add all the bonuses that are then totalled to your entire civilization. All of the cities end up being almost exactly the same, and then you can build all of the 'Wonders' in a single, central city to protect them all. BORING!

As for the Magic system, I do enjoy the fact that they are seperated into both Tactical and Stategic areas, being able to use wide-based magic outside of combat and vice-versa, and they have already promised that there is more than enough spells and whatnot to make up for the extra bit of micro-managing that comes from having to research the books and spells and stuff to get the spells.  A plus for me.

As for the IP issues, I dont' think it'll be a problem they aren't releasing the book and stuff until after the game sales, so yea.  As for the work that's already been done, I think its a big plus that Random House stepped in and helped them create the campaign, which would have been 'admittedly' generic. But now it'll be a real story that ties everything together.

As for it all, I think the amount of soldiers you can produce and then the singular micro-managing of all of their equipment will end up being okay.  After all, they've already stated that its better to have a few higher-level (i.e. more experienced) units than it is to mass-produce shit loads of weaker units.  So here's to hoping!

[nenjin]

I share some of your skeptism, Nenjin, especially about a game this hyped.  But its been stated in previews and interviews time and again that this game is more for those of us that want a deeper, in-depth game that can only come from a PC game.  Personally, I find the ability to singulary outfit your soldiers and 'heroes' to be a nifty change over the bland 'I'm going to mass produce this unit and just spam the hell out of my enemy'.

I would have been fine with your heroes and your lords shifting around equipment. The fact I have to stick iron spears on my guards instead of bronze ones, or whatever the equivalent is....that's too much micro in my book. I like programming what the units have and what they do. Not actually moving gear around and upgrading them.

[Viken]

Well, that's the kicker. Even if you can reach higher-teir peices of equipment, like say those iron spears over bronze or copper ones, the difference comes with the amount of time it takes to produce, train, and outfit those new soldiers with them.  Its not so muchas 'upgrading' each new set, as in the fine balance of what you need, compared to what it would cost to completely re-do them all, even over time.

Its a fine line, but I think there is a difference there.  And I haven't seen anything that says that you can even upgrade existing units (outside of your Heroes) with new stuff like that.  I may be wrong, but I just don't know. I never got the chance to play around with the betas, and am even more unlikely to be able to get the game as soon as it comes out. So I'll find out one way or another after its released.

[GaelicVigil]

I can probably live without the massive thousand+ army battles that they talked about (promised?) in the beginning.  From some of the dev journals I've read, it sounds like they ran into trouble with the tactical combat system and had to tone things down.  Frogboy stated that the Stardock team had never done tactical battles and, therefore, had little to no experience in it.  What I cannot live without, however, is the modding network they touted as one of the biggest, if not the biggest, feature of the game.  I'd love it if someone could find some of the old press releases that stated this, because it seems that a lot of people have forgotten about it.

For those who don't remember or weren't around when this game was first announced, they were talking about a system where players on the network could instantly share their creations in a "Spore"-like fashion.  In fact, they even claimed that you would be able to have mods and fan content download/streamed to your system for your maps automatically before world generation.  In this system they said you would be able to set parameters on what kind of content you wanted (like only allowing high-rated content), or even hand pick cool stuff you wanted from a sorted/searchable list (not unlike Spore's creature database). 

They said outright, basically, that the reason why they were only adding in two "human" races was because they expected fan-made content to begin streaming into your game almost immediately from launch.  This, they claimed, would provide the meat of the content for your game and would keep things fresh.  With this kind of instant mod sharing, they touted that "no two games would ever be alike" because you would constantly be facing new monsters, factions, and items whenever you generated a new game.

This is really going to be the deal-breaker for me, this is what really wowed me when I first heard the announcement.  If this system has been dropped from the game, I see Elemental as nothing more than a fan-made mod for Civ 4, such as Fall From Heaven (which is a great mod, by the way, but it's still a mod).

[GaelicVigil]

Aha, I found one such release from Nov 3, 2008.  Here is the link from Gamespy

The best thing that strategy gamers have to look forward to is how fifteen years and the advent of the Internet have changed what's possible in a turn-based strategy game like Elemental. The game will come complete with several different multiplayer modes, including classic skirmish and a persistent universe mode that will allow players to develop long-term open campaigns.

Elemental will also mark Stardock's entry into the realm of Spore-style game broadcasting. The game will do much more than offer support for modders, as the company is developing a back-end infrastructure through its proprietary Impulse service that will let players seamlessly integrate new races, units, spells, technologies, buildings and much more into their game. Every time a player starts a game of Elemental, they'll have the opportunity to seamlessly incorporate new content straight from the fertile minds of the game's biggest fans.

Now you guys know I'm not crazy.

[forsaken1111]

Well you could still be crazy, but at least we know you're not lying.

Also, I don't care even a little bit about that not being in the game.

[Nilocy]

Can't wait. Two days arrrrrrrr.

Also, Gaelicvigil... do you know how to speak Gaelic?

[Heavenfall]

/wave @ forsaken111111111111111111, see you on star ruler forums, elemental forums, these forums.

[forsaken1111]

/wave @ forsaken111111111111111111, see you on star ruler forums, elemental forums, these forums.

I do get around.

[Viken]

Elemental: War of Magic is about to be released for all of those who pre-ordered and beta-tested the game. Please please please, if you get to play it, let us know how it is! 

[hemmingjay]

i thought that you could pre-load it tomorrow but won't unlock until 24th?

[Aklyon]

no, you get to play it a day early.

[forsaken1111]

It is installing now.