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Author Topic: Combat Psychology  (Read 6867 times)

HatfieldCW

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Combat Psychology
« on: May 08, 2010, 07:10:12 pm »

I haven't really been able to find anything definitive on this subject, so I'm starting a thread:  How can psychological elements of the DF simulation be worked into combat to deepen and enrich the fights and diversify their outcomes?  I'm putting it here, instead of in suggestions, because it needs some refining before I'm comfortable writing up a proper pitch for it.

In DF Talk #8 Toady talked a little bit about how a more sophisticated psych profile for each dwarf will eventually influence their day-to-day activities, like which labors they perform or their day-to-day morale and mood, and I'd like to see that worked into fights.  Right now, the fighting's pretty flat.  Civilian dwarves panic and flee if they catch a glimpse of a groundhog or kobold thief, military dwarves will sprint, all alone and naked, directly into single combat with a bronze collossus.  Invading goblin squads will pillage until they suffer a certain number of deaths and then break and run en masse.  It seems like combat trances and rage are random occurrences.

I'd like to see weights on fight-or-flight and target priorities in battle.  For fight-or-flight, it could be worked like a confidence game, similar to betting algorithms in poker.  A woodcutter with good physical fitness and a bronze axe should have a little swagger and a good sense of his own toughness, so when he's on his way to fell a tree and he bumps into a fox, he won't be interrupted by it, and indeed the fox itself will avoid him.  If it goes after him, he'll take a moment from his day to kill the fox before going back to work.  If he runs into a grizzly bear or a giant scorpion or a squad of goblins, then he'll beat feet.  So if he has a sense of his own combat capabilities, and can assign values to the possible threats around him, he'll make an on-the-fly determination about whether to go into "kill it with my hands" or "flee in flailing terror" mode.  This could be deepened further by allowing both positive and negative modifiers to the value.  For example:

AdvantagesDisadvantages
Adult Woodcutter Dwarf (+10)Faced by Human (-10)
Armed with Axe (+3*Axedwarfship Skill)Human is a swordsman with a sword (-15)
Wearing Leather Armor (+2)Human is wearing Iron Armor (-10)
Wearing Iron Cap (2)Human is enraged (-5)
Wearing Leather High Boots (+1)Faced by Goblin (-10)
Accompanied by War Dog (+War Dog's Value, say 5)Goblin is wearing iron armor (-10)
Human has a moderate arm wound and is bleeding (+4)Goblin is an elite bowgoblin with a bow (-20)
Dwarf has six confirmed kills in combat so far (+6)Goblin is wearing a complete military uniform (-2)
Dwarf hates goblins (+2)Dwarf has a mild leg injury and is in slight pain (-2)

Of course, I pulled these numbers right out of my butt.

So this looks like a really tough fight for him, one non-military dwarf with his dog (total value: 32 + axe skill modifier) against two armed and armored bad guys (total value: 84).  If his axe skill is below legendary, he won't even try it, but if he's at level 18 or above with that axe, he'll be confident enough to engage.  If he chooses to flee, his decision will be re-evaluated every so often, so he might get halfway back to the entrance and meet a combat squad on their way to intercept the goblins, and that will tip the scales massively in his favor, so he'll do an about-face and join in on the rumble.  If, during a pitched battle, he sustains a serious (though not necessarily life-threatening) wound, he'll disengage and head for the infirmary.  That way, fights will be more likely to yield treatable wounds and less likely to end with everyone getting killed.  Furthermore, if the ranking officer on the scene deems the fight unwinnable, the entire squad will be put into retreat.

One last wrinkle is that there will be a discrepancy between perceived merit and actual merit, due to skills.  A swordsman, in my example, is a generic -15 modifier to his enemies, whereas the dwarf's unique knowledge of his own skill allows for higher granularity in his self-assessment.  So he might be a level 8 axedwarf, getting a +24 boost to his self-assessment, while the human could be anywhere from a level 2 swordsman to a level 9 swordsman, and he'll always factor in as a -15 to the dwarf, while giving between +6 and +27 to his own sense of worth.  This allows a sort of bluffing, where a well-equipped squad might instill fear in the enemy just by virtue of being moderately skilled and dressed in a kickass uniform.

The other half of this idea is that combatants will disregard a unit that is no longer a threat, either due to wounds or a transition into open flight.  If there's no immediate threat, they will chase and kill fleeing enemies or take some time to finish off wounded adversaries, but they won't sit there choking an unconscious goblin while three other, healthy enemies pepper them with arrows.

Once again, this will mean more business for the doctors and less for the coffin-makers at the end of each battle.
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Sabin Stargem

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Re: Combat Psychology
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2010, 09:02:35 pm »

This belongs in suggestions, but I think it is a good idea.  Personality traits could also figure into a dwarf's behavior, like Immoderation and Anger affecting Beserker status, Patience on the Martial Trance, and so on.  The personality traits of creatures are as follows:

ANXIETY
ANGER
DEPRESSION
SELF_CONSCIOUSNESS
IMMODERATION
VULNERABILITY
FRIENDLINESS
GREGARIOUSNESS
ASSERTIVENESS
ACTIVITY_LEVEL
EXCITEMENT_SEEKING
CHEERFULNESS
IMAGINATION
ARTISTIC_INTEREST
EMOTIONALITY
ADVENTUROUSNESS
INTELLECTUAL_CURIOSITY
LIBERALISM
TRUST
STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS
ALTRUISM
COOPERATION
MODESTY
SYMPATHY
SELF_EFFICACY
ORDERLINESS
DUTIFULNESS
ACHIEVEMENT_STRIVING
SELF_DISCIPLINE
CAUTIOUSNESS

Many of these traits would definitely have some factor in how someone approaches combat.  Someone with a high SYMPATHY would be geared towards finishing off foes quickly, since letting them live would mean suffering, while someone with no SYMPATHY probably won't pity them at all, and might even watch them writhe in pain if there is no CAUTIOUNESS in his character.  Personality traits range from 0 to 100, so I suppose each trait could have a straightforward addition and subtraction to each action type a dwarf could take towards combat.

Personality: 0 to 100 points each
Skills        : 0 to 20   points each
Attributes : 0 to 10 points each     (Physical attributes)
Weapons  : 0 to 120   points each  (Dependent on material & quality.  There are six material ranges for weapons, and 6 qualities, according to the d40 wiki.)


Terrified by Enemy
+High Imagination
-High Assertiveness

Engage Enemy
+High Dutifulness
-Low Excitement Seeking

Observe Enemy
+High Self Discipline
-Low Intellectual Curiosity

Intends to Attack Enemy
+High Straghtforwardness
-High Friendliness

Torturing Enemy
+Low Sympathy
-High Dutifulness
+High Excitement Seeking

Beserker
+Low Cautiousness
+High Anger
+Low Vulnerability

Martial Trance
+Low Anger
+High Patience

Team Spirit
+High Cooperation
-High Modesty
-High Vulnerability
-Low Achievement Striving
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 09:04:30 pm by Sabin Stargem »
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Umi

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Re: Combat Psychology
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2010, 09:25:07 pm »

Sabin beat me to it...>_>

But great idea, I think this would greatly benefit the game.  I think there should also be an ignore option.  I don't want my plant gatherers to spend all day killing the random groundhog he stumbles on just because he can and he isn't afraid enough to run away.  Just sidestep it and only fight if the groundhog is openly hostile.
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Sensei

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Re: Combat Psychology
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2010, 09:54:08 pm »

Might be less complex than that, I think, but totally necessary. Dwarves should decide whether they can win the fight, if they aren't in the military anyway. I'm not so sure about militants disengaging on their own though. Maybe just badly wounded ones. This would all be far preferable to dwarves running like ninnies until you tell them to get in there and kill the bunny.
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Sabin Stargem

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Re: Combat Psychology
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2010, 10:36:52 pm »

Perhaps there can be social pressures added into the game to emulate the effects of reputation and obligations?  That can certainly alter how an person behaves.  EG:

Flee from Enemy
+Powerful Enemy
+Outnumbered
+High Imagination
+Low Assertiveness
+Low Excitement Seeking
+High Vulneribility
-Veteran
-Reputation of Strength
-Reputation of Bravery
-Duty to the Captain Ironwall
-Duty to the Squad Chainlinks
-Friendship with the Captain Ironwall
-Friendship with the Squad Chainlinks
-Has a loving family consisting of a wife and daughter
-An native to Ironspire

So a dwarf who has friends, family, and duty would be likely to not disengage, while someone who has no ties or is very self-serving is more likely to cut and run.
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Nolor

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Re: Combat Psychology
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2010, 02:50:28 am »

Dwarves who flee from battle could possibly be penalized via the justice system. Might make it a bit more useful, at least.
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Rowanas

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Re: Combat Psychology
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2010, 04:33:39 am »

I support this wholeheartedly. I think justice should only be an issue if they ran from cowardice rather than wounds and even then only if the dwarf had actually been told to engage, rather than some hapless woodcutter getting a court martial for running from a tiger.
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Shima

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Re: Combat Psychology
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2010, 06:23:22 am »

You have my axe in support of this.
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Vester

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Re: Combat Psychology
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2010, 06:47:13 am »

Or at the very least, we can finally see fights that make sense.

Olon Cattenlikot cancels Fight: is a child.
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troodon

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Re: Combat Psychology
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2010, 07:36:26 am »

groundhog is openly hostile.

This needs fan art.
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Vester

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Re: Combat Psychology
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2010, 08:03:05 am »

groundhog is openly hostile.

This needs fan art.

Because you're named after a relatively obscure, but highly intelligent dinosaur, THIS HAS BEEN DONE.

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Sabin Stargem

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Re: Combat Psychology
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2010, 08:31:56 am »

Injuries     : ? to ??? points each?
Personality: 0 to 100 points each
Chance    : 0  to 100 points, a single dice roll.
Skills        : 0 to 20   points each   (When applicable.  Axe skill won't apply if no axe is wielded.)
Attributes : 0 to 60 points each     (Physical attributes and mental attributes, but the latter needs high observation ability.)
Weapons  : 0 to 120   points each  (Dependent on material & quality.  There are six material ranges for weapons, and 6 qualities, according to the d40 wiki.)

Unresolved Issues:

1)  With a personality trait like Achievement Striving, it can be good or bad depending on how high it is and for what action it concerns.  For example, a low desire to achieve is a bad thing for team spirit, since you won't put your all into something.  On the other hand, being too ambitious can be a bad thing, if you become a showboat for no real reason.  Should we have 'sweet spots' between the two extremes?  Only have the trait having either positive or negative effects, but not both?



2)  What aspects of combat should be handled, and in what order?  Just how many different actions are there to consider? 

Received Orders - Attack Ogre

Observe Enemy - Skipped OR Charge Enemy

Observe Enemy----> Engage Enemy OR Flee Enemy?

Engage Enemy ----> Charge Enemy OR Ambush Enemy OR Allow Enemy to Approach?

Ambush enemy
Enter martial trance
Becomes berserk
Call for enemy surrender
Enemy Surrenders
Surrender
Assess personal injury
Capture enemy
Torture enemy
Taunt enemy
Make battlecry
Recoil in pain
Ignore Pain
Circle enemy
Make a plan
Assess squad status
Call for retreat
Call for help


3)  To what degree should injury impact a person's psychology?  I don't know much about the injury system, how many points are injuries worth?
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Deathworks

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Re: Combat Psychology
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2010, 10:31:40 am »

Hi!

I find this very interesting.

Personally, I think the personality should weigh really heavily into this, besides adding absolute points also strengthening or dampening effects. For instance, a dwarf who is has a lousy feeling for her body may be less influenced by minor injuries because she doesn't notice. Interestingly enough, a dwarf with perfect knowledge of her body would probably also be less influenced by minor injuries due to being able to place them correctly. Only the average dwarf would then get full impact from all those scratches.

The original suggestion seems to have a very strong focus on universal aspects - I mean, if you have 5 dwarves of similar skill meeting the same danger, that would lead to them all respond in the same way. But if one of them was a coward causing him to overestimate the danger of the enemy and that was taken into account, you could have 4 dwarves fighting and one turning tail. And personally, I find this much more interesting than having either 5 dwarves fight or 5 dwarves flee.

Deathworks
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Umi

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Re: Combat Psychology
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2010, 01:28:14 pm »

This would make it rather difficult to have epic last stands though.  If you NEED your military to stand their ground and fight to their death so you can get you civilians out and they are interested in just running with the civvies...

Maybe have a one time per dwarf "last stand" order where they fight until everything is dead or they die?  Too bad they can't figure out all that on their own...
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Deathworks

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Re: Combat Psychology
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2010, 01:38:40 pm »

Hi!

Umi: I am assuming you are responding to my statements.

Actually, I see quite the opposite potential. With the right weight, if you take the time to choose the right dwarves, you can look forward to epic stands of individuals in the time of need.

For instance, someone who cares about others would be more likely to sacrifice themselves if there are civilians who need protection.

What I am interested in is to avoid having standardized units - so even if you have 2 brave dwarves, their feelings about some things may cause them to react differently to a given situation (within reason, of course). What would indeed be impossible is to simply recruit a new migrant without a look at them and trust that you get a strong military out of it - and I think that would be an improvement.

Deathworks
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