Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic: Trying to get into the game and failing. Ideas?  (Read 3145 times)

ungulateman

  • Bay Watcher
  • [PREFSTRING: haunting moos]
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to get into the game and failing. Ideas?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2010, 03:11:27 am »

If you're looking for a good tileset without Mayday's "fugly dwarves" (they're not that bad, although they could be better), Ranting Rodent is a good option. Search for his thread in Modding, and download the packaged set with 40d.

He'll make a tileset for DF2010 when the merge is done, by the way.
Logged
That's the great thing about this forum. We can derail any discussion into any other topic.
It's not an embark so much as seven dwarves having a simultaneous strange mood and going off to build an artifact fortress that menaces with spikes of awesome and hanging rings of death.

Bronzebeard

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to get into the game and failing. Ideas?
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2010, 03:39:59 am »

The dwarves in Mayday's set are ugly? :-\ Hm. That never occurred to me. Then again, it's the only one I've used and by what I've seen of the others, I'm loyal to it. I certainly admire the people that can play the game in ASCII but I just lack the capacity to tolerate it -- no offense. It's just too... ASCII. :-[
I never liked the mega projects. Call me uncreative, but I just don't see the point in spending that much time on creating a beautiful work of art in a medium that is barely recognized yet. I dunno, I can see its easy to argue against that but that's how I feel, whether or not I want to spend time actually thinking about it. (note the difference between "feeling" and "thinking")
To take it a step further, I started losing sight of the point of even making fortress after fortress! If they were all going to fail, what was the point? It's steeped in futility! Mind you, I'm not a "yay, weeks or months of effort on a grand subterranean complex out the window!" kind of guy. That is, until I realized a key concept of the game: it isn't all about the fortress, but the world around it. When I was merely dabbling in DF (but, frankly, compared to those with hanging stalactite tower-bedrooms over a churning sea of magma, I'm still but a dabbler), and hence had a large share of disappointments, I discarded a world right after a fallen fortress because I felt that my failure somehow sullied it. I didn't understand how truly deep the worlds could be and that the longer you play in them, sucking like hell or not, they're becoming more enriched and interesting! To that end, grand fortresses and megaprojects alike do seem futile in terms of public recognition but if you value the concept of your own unique and complex world wherein something as wonderful as a megaproject can be as result of your labor, that can be a reward in its own right... plus, again, you can always slap them up on here with the few, relatively obscure fans of said medium. :P
Logged

hermes

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to get into the game and failing. Ideas?
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2010, 07:09:31 am »

I was in the same sit after reading Boatmurdered.  Captnduck's youtube tutorials helped me get into it...  He has started making a new series for 0.31, though you might want to go back to the originals since he skips some info in the latest.

DF 0.31 tutorial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGBTNPbUvFM

The best part is he tackles one or two points in each video, so I found that you can just skip the things you're comfortable with and follow along with the tricky stuff.  (The latest where he tackles the new military is quite hilarious as his "long defeat" plays out).

edit - I think there are more spoilers in the new vids, the earlier ones are def more spoiler free if you're worried - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koZUS2h-Yzc
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 07:16:13 am by hermes »
Logged
We can only guess at the longing of the creator. Someone who would need to create one such as you. - A Computer
I've been working on this type of thing...

Metroid

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to get into the game and failing. Ideas?
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2010, 07:15:07 am »

When I first started playing, I used the "newbie's guide to dwarf fortress" (google), it link you to a pre-packaged mayday install, and really helps to understand the UI. Most importantly, it starts you out with the most basic, important, and commonly used commands.

I second this suggestion. I used the guide (but not the gamesave that came with it) and it helped me out a lot. Of course, I still come here to ask a lot of things...
Logged
Euler's identity can be used to quickly (and informally) verify DeMoivre's Theorem.

SeaBee

  • Bay Watcher
  • Wolves are atheists
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to get into the game and failing. Ideas?
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2010, 07:27:10 am »

I remember when I first tried DF. I scoffed at the idea of using a wiki, fired the game up ... and rapidly abandoned ship.

A month later I remember being in the mood to read something, but didn't have any books around to scratch the particular itch I was having. Figured I'd try again, this time with the wiki / forums / Google and see how it went.

I remember starting after dinner. I remember playing until the sun was going down the NEXT day. Since that time this game has been a part of my life.
Logged

silantrath

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to get into the game and failing. Ideas?
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2010, 05:52:53 pm »

mayday's dwarves are ugly? I think they're cool...

(as in building a bed requires a bed.  "What?  How can it require a bed when I haven't built it yet!")

this.

When I first started playing, it was figuring out how "rooms" and "buildings" worked that was the most disorienting. You have to realize that you dig the architecture out of the mountain before you construct shops, beds and tables in the hollowed out areas, separated by hallways and doors, then use "q" to assign them their specific space/functions. As far as building beds out of beds and tables out of tables, I imagine this; Urist McCarpenter takes logs, fashions bed *kit* (like something you'd find boxed up at walmart; 'some assembly required'). Later, Urist McFurnitureHauler takes that kit to a room somewhere and puts it together, leaving a completed, functional bed on the floor.

As a side note, I've had some trouble with mayday's gfx pack lately. As soon as .03 came out, I wanted to play it. I wanted my graphics, but mayday hadn't built a graphics pack just yet, so I basically just unpacked the vanilla package into my existing directory, saving my init.txt and copying the raws into my save folders. Afterwards, the graphics got kinda messed up in a few places, such as plump helmets now look like elm trees with purple leaves. Don't know how this happened, and I tried downloading and installing a clean graphics kit(not the packaged game, just the graphics) and it's still messed up. And yes, I know about df 2010's "saves have their own raws now" deal.

Logged

whatthefbomb

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to get into the game and failing. Ideas?
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2010, 10:45:55 pm »

It appears that the general consensus is to use Mayday's tileset and watch video tutorials. Will do. Thanks, guys. Hopefully, I'll have some Fun to share some time soon. Oh, and don't worry, I know that the circus is ALWAYS in town. ;D

Unfortunately, I put emphasis on "soon." I read that Mayday's graphics require a horizontal resolution of 1280 pixels. While my current monitor is capable of rendering at that, it can only do so at 60 Hz. My eyes are already going, and I'm usually running @ 85. 60 would make them spontaneously combust. (Urist McWhatthefbomb cancels Play Dwarf Fortress: eyes on fire.) I'll switch over to my TV as soon as I get a VGA cable that I can hook it up with. (I know where to get one, I just wanna see if I can mooch one off a family member first. XD)

Thanks for the support, guys.
Logged

Chrissi

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to get into the game and failing. Ideas?
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2010, 11:53:35 pm »

Just wondering, do you use a CRT or a LCD monitor?  If you're using an LCD, you do know that there is basically no refresh rate on LCD monitors, or at least not one that's going to make your eyes hurt/give you a headache, right?  Just checkin.  60 Hz on an LCD just means it updates slower than 85 Hz, but there is no flashing going on.  The lights are always on.
Logged

Chicken Launcher

  • Bay Watcher
  • Poultry Technician
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to get into the game and failing. Ideas?
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2010, 12:29:36 am »

I needed a tileset when I first played DF, so I could at least recognize the things on the screen while I learned to play. Now, though, I usually play with ascii, since I like the more plain default look. So I don't think anyone will become dependent on a tileset just because they start with one.
Logged
"Did you ever notice any time you see two groups of people who really hate each other, chances are good they’re wearing different kinds of hats? Keep an eye on that, it might be important." - George Carlin

Greiger

  • Bay Watcher
  • Reptilian Illuminati member. Keep it secret.
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to get into the game and failing. Ideas?
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2010, 01:00:13 am »

Steps to help get into DF.

A) Avoid the hell outta aquifers.  Those are almost a megaproject on their own to get through.  A river or brook would also be nice for a first fort.  Brook preferred.

B) Make something a little complex, but useful.  Set that as your goal.  Something like a somewhat large 2 story tall wall surrounding yer hole in the ground with fortifications on top.  A nice little goal, that actually has practical use, like when the goblins come a calling.

C.a)Losing is fun, try again.
C.b)You did it! pat yourself on the back!  Addicted yet?  If not those dwarves might really like a waterfall in their dining room.

D.a)Losing is fun.  And moist.  Try again
D.b) Impressive, you can even see their happy faces beaming at you in joy.  What is your next project?
Logged
Disclaimer: Not responsible for dwarven deaths from the use or misuse of this post.
Quote
I don't need friends!! I've got knives!!!

Kagus

  • Bay Watcher
  • Olive oil. Don't you?
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to get into the game and failing. Ideas?
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2010, 01:50:03 am »

When I first started playing (back in the 2D version), I think it may have taken me the first month just trying to figure out where/what my dwarves were.  After that it was a jumble of commas, percentage marks, and letters of all different colors and capitalizations until things finally "clicked" and I went Matrix.

ASCII takes time getting used to.  It's daunting at first, but after a while there's a sudden change and then the character interpretation becomes second nature.  In fact, it actually goes the other way for a bit, and you start seeing elephants in your typing and you notice that Faerūn has a bucket in the middle of it for some odd reason.  Luckily, that will pass (sort of).

Getting a tileset will, of course, change things a bit.  But just because it's trickier to get into doesn't mean that ASCII is inaccessible, far from it.  It's really just a matter of choice, as you'll have some oddities you need to get used to when dealing with a tileset (what are those chairs doing on my drawbridge?  And why are there drumsticks swimming around in the moat?  How did that butterfly turn into a purple skeleton?  I never knew that cave spiders made their webs out of white crystals...).  Tilesets will probably be easier for getting to see and recognize standard everyday objects, but they have certain unique quirks that take some getting used to.  Like I said, it really just comes down to personal preference.


The user interface is an absolute bastard to work with, but you'll familiarize yourself with it in due course.  It's really just a matter of practice...  Eventually, all those keypresses will get locked into your fingers and you won't have to think about how to navigate to the page you happen to need.


The tutorial videos are of course quite helpful, but like the wiki, they're only supplementary.  The only way you're going to learn how to play dwarf fortress is to do exactly that: Play it.  If you're ready to accept that your first five or so fortresses will collapse due to some hilarious planning oversight or other catastrophic accident, then you're good to go.  There will always be more dwarves where those came from.

You might actually want to consider trying out the old version of DF, the 2D version.  It had a lot of nasty bugs and there are some significant differences between then and now, but the older version didn't have nearly as much content as the newer one, and was thus quite a bit less complicated.  I wouldn't really recommend it due to the fact that you'll need to re-learn at least part of what you pick up from the 2D version in order to get into 3D, but if you're having a lot of trouble keeping track of things then it's always an option.

I remember my first fort...   I built what I thought was a grand entrance into the fort, and then started branching off into a number of other rooms so I could build whatever I happened to need at that particular time.

It didn't take long before I found out that a single-tile-wide entrance isn't exactly "grand", and that you can run into quite a bit of traffic if your hallways are of the same size.  Also, having your bedrooms separated from the outside by five squares of dirt and a single stone door isn't what you might call "well-protected".


Much later, I'd managed to permanently flood the area outside my front gate, render a couple inside rooms unusable, and have quite a few dwarves get knocked about by highly preventable cave-ins.  Life was good.

So, yeah...   Don't expect to get into the game on your first, second, or even third try.  As has been said, Dwarf Fortress doesn't have a learning curve, it has a learning cliff.  It really is quite astonishing when you miraculously reach that moment of enlightenment and start giving the game a taste of its own medicine.  There's really very little build-up in skill or success, it's just a matter of "death, death, death, death, death, epic".

Good luck in your continued efforts!  And Dwarf Fortress will only ever be "not for you" if you want it to be.  It's a wild, untamed cave horse, bucking at the saddle you try to strap on it.  But that doesn't mean it doesn't want you to ride it.

Dabi

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to get into the game and failing. Ideas?
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2010, 09:14:45 am »

Tileset helped but once I knew the basics etc an update came and I just couldn't be bothered so I tried out ASCII - It was easier when I knew most things and now I prefer it.
Logged
If a elf dies in a forest and only dwarfs are around to see it does anyone care?

Mfbrew

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to get into the game and failing. Ideas?
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2010, 10:33:56 am »

If you're an old skool gamer, it won't take long to get used to DF's ASCII set- it's actually better than most roguelikes.  Otherwise, go ahead and put ketchup on your steak and download a graphical set, it's a free country.

The hard part for me, getting into DF, was getting over the strategy gamer mindset.

What I mean is that you don't really have to worry about things like "omg if I don't have at least 32 upgraded soldiers at the 8min 52 second mark, I'm screwed" or "I need 1 food grower and 0.5 smiths for every 3 dwarves" etc.

If you just let your dwarves sit around talking to each other, they'll actually get stronger.  In non bugged out versions, a handful of half assed soldiers and a locked door can pretty much protect you for years into a map.  All it takes is a grower or two to feed everybody.

In other words, don't put unnecessary pressure on yourself or feel guilty for not maximizing/optimizing.
Logged

huhu

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to get into the game and failing. Ideas?
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2010, 01:17:21 pm »

Getting into the game gets progressively harder as time passes, I assume. Every version brings more complexity into the already daunting mix and beginners have an even greater hurdle to climb. I was lucky to start with an old version, so every update since only brought a limited set of new things to learn. That's one solution: Get an older version to practice with. 40d19 especially is worth considering, as it's stable and the most versatile since the brand new versions. The 40d# series is what people played non-stop for the last year and a half, and what most of the greatest existing megaprojects used, so it's not a bad version to play by any means.

You could try some roguelikes with ASCII graphics. ADOM and Nethack are the first that spring in mind, but these days there are tons of good, 'lesser known' roguelikes around. Besides being awesome games in their own, they'll bridge that cap between enjoyment and ASCII graphics that everyone seems to start out with. Once you get used to building scenes in your head with the rougher visual clues, I'd think you'll find the same pleasure that people get from reading a book instead of watching the same story as a movie.

Third point is that Dwarf Fortress requires a bit of do-it-yourself spirit to be really playable. You'll have to find some kind of perverse enjoyment from getting your hands dirty with the magma plumbing, irrigation, artificial waterfalls, and other elaborate technical systems. Some people get their kicks from modifying the game. If you have no interest in that kind of stuff, the game in its unfinished and constantly mutating state will become a frustrating experience sooner rather than later. Expect a lot of relearning with every new version that comes out, as old methods become obsolete and new methods are coded in.

I think for a beginner the 'Play now' option is golden. Forget about customizing stuff until you know what you want. DF is chock full of customizable stuff that beginning players shouldn't even think about, so run with the factory defaults until you have an educated opinion that some aspect of the game needs adjusting.
Logged

Kavalion

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to get into the game and failing. Ideas?
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2010, 02:31:46 pm »

I had to read a lot of wiki articles to understand how to do anything.

I was okay without the graphics, but it's easier to tell where everything is with a good tileset.  Since the game is mainly about designing a cool-looking fortress, I think a tileset is necessary to really enjoy it.

I notice that some people say they used graphics and then went back to ASCII.  What's the benefit of just having ASCII?
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3