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I support adding creature waste to the game

134 (46.9%)

I do NOT support adding creature waste to the game

86 (30.1%)

I would not mind, but do not care

37 (12.9%)

Other

3 (1%)

In the distant future, but not anytime soon. (You should vote yes instead of this, but it was called for.)

26 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 285

[GlyphGryph]

The "Yes" options for this one kinda imply that this feature would be forced on the people who don't want it.  I don't know if that was deliberate, but it's definitely not realistic.  This poll is a step back from the other one in that regard.

The problem with that is that if Toady was implementing, we don't know how he would do so. In addition, there was a lot of complaining in the last poll of that option favouring one side or the other. So I'd assume it wouldn't be toggle-able and vote whichever you'd actually prefer. It it still ends up split down the middle, at least Toady will know.

[riznar]

I'm totally lost as to what people are voting for now.

Is it any waste system? Waste with poo? Waste without poo? Poo only?

This is a murky poll.

[Andeerz]

I mean, on the whole, its more realism, which is good, but there is a reason it doesn't come up in books/movies/etc as part of everyday life.

The reason it doesn't come up in books/movies/etc likely has to do, at least in my opinion, with the possible fact that most books/movies/etc. don't focus on the design, government, and running of a fortress or city. 

[Askot Bokbondeler]

Also, stories are told with gaps, tolkien didn't describe every step frodo took to mordor, he probably stepped on some horse shit, and also produced some hobbit shit, but it's not worth writing about if we can assume he did that while we weren't looking. If we assume we were always looking, then there's something missing if frodo doesnt go behind the bushes a few times... he probably could use some fibers

[Bronzebeard]

Dwarf Fortress has long impressed me with its realism. _{Then again, I don't know if that's the right word for a game wherein cats carry soap in their mouth...}
Realistic or not, the game is heavy on detail, and that's credit enough. Before I found this thread, I read an article on the wiki about how to trap a dwarf in a sealed room full of levers that control every single mechanic component in the fortress (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/40d:Stupid_dwarf_trick#U.R.I.S.T._Artificial_Intelligence), and while thinking how to fulfill the antisocial fellow's needs I thought, "How's he go to the bathroom?" That thought turned into, "How do any of the dwarves go to the bathroom?" I suppose they don't. I wondered why that was. It would certainly add more engineering to any fortress design, since there'd have to be toilets (crude ones, I imagine, probably just waste chutes) on every floor, or separate rooms for dwarves to relieve themselves, etc. Beyond any groaning about how unneeded or childish it is, it's surely a fact of any creature's life, is it not?

It's true that this will have some impact on performance (if, for that fact alone, every creature still generates waste, and there's a lot of animals around) but this game's looks to ram-usage ratio is already way off. I can run Modern Warfare 2 or Battlefield: Bad Company 2 at the highest possible settings without a frame less to show for it, while this game lags when I'm up to 100 or so dwarves alone; performance doesn't seem to be its priority, rather than detail and complexity. I say, therefore, waste should be included, regardless.

[darkrider2]

I support waste in DF. I believe it would add an extra level of management and complexity to the game, which can only be a good thing.

[Rotten]

Trying to be optimistic, I voted "Yes" this time. But as I have explained before, it is very important for me that we find a way to curb the resulting onslaught of immaturity that might occur (I am not sad if I am wrong and it does not occur at all, of course).

So what? It's a single player game. People's poop-drowning traps will not be forced on you. Just don't build them. Using the immaturity as an excuse is like saying that the internet should be shut down because some people use it to plan crimes.

[Bronzebeard]

Also, in regards to the performance issue, waste doesn't even have to be a concrete unit in the game; it can simply be a quick and simple task that a dwarf or other creature occasionally scampers off to do, like drinking water from a pond (I don't know if that actually removes 1 water from the stack of 7 in that tile, but you get the gist). Originally, for instance, they'd have to go outside and hunker down beside a tree, but for the obvious safety concerns that entails over time, bathrooms in-fortress will be necessary. This would also alleviate those with the pressing (albeit rather silly) concerns toward maturity and feces pits. Just a thought.

[Zangi]

Trying to be optimistic, I voted "Yes" this time. But as I have explained before, it is very important for me that we find a way to curb the resulting onslaught of immaturity that might occur (I am not sad if I am wrong and it does not occur at all, of course).

So what? It's a single player game. People's poop-drowning traps will not be forced on you. Just don't build them. Using the immaturity as an excuse is like saying that the internet should be shut down because some people use it to plan crimes.

It is when you get people posting about it on the DF forums on a regular basis as a new meme on the same level as the catsplosion based meme.

[Rotten]

Trying to be optimistic, I voted "Yes" this time. But as I have explained before, it is very important for me that we find a way to curb the resulting onslaught of immaturity that might occur (I am not sad if I am wrong and it does not occur at all, of course).

So what? It's a single player game. People's poop-drowning traps will not be forced on you. Just don't build them. Using the immaturity as an excuse is like saying that the internet should be shut down because some people use it to plan crimes.

It is when you get people posting about it on the DF forums on a regular basis as a new meme on the same level as the catsplosion based meme.

Oh no, immaturity on the internet?! Everybody, into the magma!
...
Just ignore it. I can't really imagine how you would be offended by a person mentioning poop. It's a basic bodily function.
Also people post about how they do sick/insane stuff every day on the internet. It should be shut down.

[Zangi]

Trying to be optimistic, I voted "Yes" this time. But as I have explained before, it is very important for me that we find a way to curb the resulting onslaught of immaturity that might occur (I am not sad if I am wrong and it does not occur at all, of course).

So what? It's a single player game. People's poop-drowning traps will not be forced on you. Just don't build them. Using the immaturity as an excuse is like saying that the internet should be shut down because some people use it to plan crimes.

It is when you get people posting about it on the DF forums on a regular basis as a new meme on the same level as the catsplosion based meme.

Oh no, immaturity on the internet?! Everybody, into the magma!
...
Just ignore it. I can't really imagine how you would be offended by a person mentioning poop. It's a basic bodily function.
Also people post about how they do sick/insane stuff every day on the internet. It should be shut down.

They can do that in 4chan or wherever else.  Why invite it here?

[Rotten]

Trying to be optimistic, I voted "Yes" this time. But as I have explained before, it is very important for me that we find a way to curb the resulting onslaught of immaturity that might occur (I am not sad if I am wrong and it does not occur at all, of course).

So what? It's a single player game. People's poop-drowning traps will not be forced on you. Just don't build them. Using the immaturity as an excuse is like saying that the internet should be shut down because some people use it to plan crimes.

It is when you get people posting about it on the DF forums on a regular basis as a new meme on the same level as the catsplosion based meme.

Oh no, immaturity on the internet?! Everybody, into the magma!
...
Just ignore it. I can't really imagine how you would be offended by a person mentioning poop. It's a basic bodily function.
Also people post about how they do sick/insane stuff every day on the internet. It should be shut down.

They can do that in 4chan or wherever else.  Why invite it here?

I don't think you're getting what I mean. I meant that, yeah, sure, there's going to be some people who act immature about it. That's not justification to say that a very fun and realistic feature should be  taken out, just like saying that the internet can be used to plan crimes or brag about torturing cats is not justification to shut it down.
Also, being able to tear every limb off an elf and let it bleed out is better than an abstracted 'filth' tile that is dropped by dwarves in a toilet?

[Cruxador]

Trying to be optimistic, I voted "Yes" this time. But as I have explained before, it is very important for me that we find a way to curb the resulting onslaught of immaturity that might occur (I am not sad if I am wrong and it does not occur at all, of course).

So what? It's a single player game. People's poop-drowning traps will not be forced on you. Just don't build them. Using the immaturity as an excuse is like saying that the internet should be shut down because some people use it to plan crimes.

It is when you get people posting about it on the DF forums on a regular basis as a new meme on the same level as the catsplosion based meme.

Oh no, immaturity on the internet?! Everybody, into the magma!
...
Just ignore it. I can't really imagine how you would be offended by a person mentioning poop. It's a basic bodily function.
Also people post about how they do sick/insane stuff every day on the internet. It should be shut down.

They can do that in 4chan or wherever else.  Why invite it here?

Actually, the dwarf fortress threads on 4chan tend to be totally devoid of the sort of thing which people on these forums see as indication that waste would be used to drown elves. "Sick and insane stuff" exist in proportions roughly equal to elsewhere, and people are not, as this forum is, inclined to farm mermaids or whatnot. This sort of immaturity would exist only here, if it were to exist at all.

It could be on Something Awful too, I don't go there so I don't know.

[Bronzebeard]

I don't think you're getting what I mean. I meant that, yeah, sure, there's going to be some people who act immature about it. That's not justification to say that a very fun and realistic feature should be  taken out, just like saying that the internet can be used to plan crimes or brag about torturing cats is not justification to shut it down.
Also, being able to tear every limb off an elf and let it bleed out is better than an abstracted 'filth' tile that is dropped by dwarves in a toilet?

Rotten's absolutely right. And it isn't as if feces don't exist in real life. We all presumably take a dump every single day, don't we? You have some funny pranks or references here and there but, really, I don't see anyone immature enough to start causing chaos because of it. This game is the game to add feces to, if any, because it focuses on detail, not whether or not some 10 year old can handle it without causing a minor nuisance on a forum thread.

[riznar]

If we're going to talk about detail, dwarves should sleep every day, eat a few times, pee several times, and poop once.

For their health Urist McHouse recommends loving sex every other day, a glass of wine with dinner (not a problem), and a 40 hour work week.