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[catsplosion]

Not enough account is taken of the wielder's strength.  A lead hammer might be more deadly than a steel hammer of the same size on the principle if its increased mass, if it could swing the same speed: but the size of the steel hammer is designed to optimize, when powered by the unusually shaped engine of the dwarven body, momentum at the height of the swing, and the comparison makes no sense.

[The Anus of Discontent]

Looking at this purely realistically we must remember that blunt weapons CAN cause massive internal bleeding through simple smashing action. People are killed by a punch to the stomach because it ruptures organs and blood vessels and they just bleed to death like that. Beyond that, bashing someone with the object causes muscle damage which can lead to crush syndrome like effects that damage the internal organs.

For blunt weapons to really be effective the game has to be able to allow them to do damage to things beneath the skin and for those things to be fatal. This means that organs actually have to do what organs do as opposed to just sit there.

Personally, I'd like to see more destructive head shots with blunt weapons. I've found that I can shatter someone's scull easily with a blunt weapon, but this doesn't seem to knock them out. I don't know about you, but if I was hit in the head hard enough to break my skull in any way, I'd be VERY disoriented and probably fall down and be stunned until I could reorient myself. Just falling off of a bike and feeling your head bounce off the ground would cause you to be pretty confused. It's not something you'd shake off that easily. But the fact that you can knock someone on the head and their bronze cap would save them from the shot entirely and leave them with a bruised "head muscle" is a little crappy to me. You'd think the only armor that would really have any effect is chain, cloth, and leather, as they would cushion you against the blow and spread out the impact over a larger area. Anything else would just dent, and while it would take a little bit of the edge off of the impact, you'd still end up with a pretty broken head if you got wrecked in the bronze cap with a hammer.

[Sindayven]

The problem I have is that most enemies I fight seem to have Wolverine level wound regeneration. Even opening major arteries doesn't seem to do much, given that they heal back up before any significant blood loss can take place. I'm actually curious to know if enemies can even die from blood loss.

[The Anus of Discontent]

The problem I have is that most enemies I fight seem to have Wolverine level wound regeneration. Even opening major arteries doesn't seem to do much, given that they heal back up before any significant blood loss can take place. I'm actually curious to know if enemies can even die from blood loss.

Really? When I use an edge weapon, I almost always end up having my enemy bleed to death.

Are you talking about piercing weapons or slashing weapons?

[Sindayven]

Mostly piercing. I thought that piercing through somethings heart would be slightly more fatal than it currently is. Slashing weapons are pretty good for dismembering things though.

[The Anus of Discontent]

Mostly piercing. I thought that piercing through somethings heart would be slightly more fatal than it currently is. Slashing weapons are pretty good for dismembering things though.

Yeah, and a dismemberment almost always means death.

[Raz]

The current weapon and damage system, while detailed, is actually rather unrealistic in some aspects.

To start off, it's not actually that easy to dismember bodyparts. It didn't happen as often as you'd think it would (despite what TV would have you believe). There are a number of factors that would prevent dismemberment from happening so easily:

- Little resistance; When limbs are struck, they don't offer full resistance (they get knocked around and give in)
- Bones; Bones don't break that easily. You'd have to be lucky and hit a joint (if you even managed to cut through the muscles)
- Layer of metal armour; You don't just hack through maille that easily with neither a sword or axe, let alone sever the bodypart beneath it
- Shields; Shield should offer way more protection to the entire body, especially to the shield arm. It'd be quite impossible to hit a shield arm at such an angle that the arm would sever.
- Weapons just aren't heavy enough; Weapons were usually designed to be fairly light (1H swords weighing at 1,75 - 2,5 kg) - meaning the blows would not have that much weight and momentum to it, thus solely relying in the wielder's strength to get through the tissue and bone.

That said, every weapon should deal some degree of blunt damage, which as already noted, should deal much more damage than it currently does. You don't just shrug off a solid hit to the chest with any kind of object - that would knock the air out of your lungs and have you gasping for breath for at least a few seconds. Not to mention the bruising or breaking of bones and muscles, and internal rupturing and bleeding of them - which have the potential of being pretty severe without necessarily damaging to arteries. I think you get the picture.

[The Anus of Discontent]

The current weapon and damage system, while detailed, is actually rather unrealistic in some aspects.

To start off, it's not actually that easy to dismember bodyparts. It didn't happen as often as you'd think it would (despite what TV would have you believe). There are a number of factors that would prevent dismemberment from happening so easily:

- Little resistance; When limbs are struck, they don't offer full resistance (they get knocked around and give in)
- Bones; Bones don't break that easily. You'd have to be lucky and hit a joint (if you even managed to cut through the muscles)
- Layer of metal armour; You don't just hack through maille that easily with neither a sword or axe, let alone sever the bodypart beneath it
- Shields; Shield should offer way more protection to the entire body, especially to the shield arm. It'd be quite impossible to hit a shield arm at such an angle that the arm would sever.
- Weapons just aren't heavy enough; Weapons were usually designed to be fairly light (1H swords weighing at 1,75 - 2,5 kg) - meaning the blows would not have that much weight and momentum to it, thus solely relying in the wielder's strength to get through the tissue and bone.

That said, every weapon should deal some degree of blunt damage, which as already noted, should deal much more damage than it currently does. You don't just shrug off a solid hit to the chest with any kind of object - that would knock the air out of your lungs and have you gasping for breath for at least a few seconds. Not to mention the bruising or breaking of bones and muscles, and internal rupturing and bleeding of them - which have the potential of being pretty severe without necessarily damaging to arteries. I think you get the picture.

The only problem I see, then, is that fights with armored opponents could last forever. I can see it now.

Elite Swordsman slashes you in the chest, bruising the muscle through the bronze chain mail shirt.
You shlash the Elite Swordsman in the chest, bruising the muscle through the bronze chain mail shirt.

Except that would be EVERY ATTACK ROUND. At least, until they pass out from exhaustion and you begin strangling them to death.

[cganya]

snip
The only problem I see, then, is that fights with armored opponents could last forever. I can see it now.

Elite Swordsman slashes you in the chest, bruising the muscle through the bronze chain mail shirt.
You shlash the Elite Swordsman in the chest, bruising the muscle through the bronze chain mail shirt.

Except that would be EVERY ATTACK ROUND. At least, until they pass out from exhaustion and you begin strangling them to death.

well that would be if the combatants were just that slow in the head. they should be aiming for joints or weak points in the enemy's armor. people dont tend to dress head to toe in chain mail. hit them in the face or the foot or something.

[Vester]

Sooo.... we wait for the combat arc?

[The Anus of Discontent]

I suppose we'd wait for "V.A.T.S." style body targeting and attacking.

I always got kind of pissed that I couldn't aim for a specific body part. I don't always want to sweep the legs first, then attack them when they're down. Sometimes I want to chop their sword arm off in the first swing, or go for the eyes.

This random attacking is pretty annoying.

[Bricks]

Lack of aiming for body parts and the currently broken accumulation of damage make some weapons pretty damn useless.  While I've heard and found some truth to the idea that spears are better than swords/axes against armored foes, a large weapon skill in swords will allow you to deal serious damage through any armor.

I'd also like to see the wound system applied to armor (and, I suppose, weapons).  Armor is just too powerful.

[Ilmoran]

snip
The only problem I see, then, is that fights with armored opponents could last forever. I can see it now.

Elite Swordsman slashes you in the chest, bruising the muscle through the bronze chain mail shirt.
You shlash the Elite Swordsman in the chest, bruising the muscle through the bronze chain mail shirt.

Except that would be EVERY ATTACK ROUND. At least, until they pass out from exhaustion and you begin strangling them to death.

well that would be if the combatants were just that slow in the head. they should be aiming for joints or weak points in the enemy's armor. people dont tend to dress head to toe in chain mail. hit them in the face or the foot or something.

There should also eventually be a way to account for damage to the armor making it provide less protection as the fight wears on.

[Vester]

snip
The only problem I see, then, is that fights with armored opponents could last forever. I can see it now.

Elite Swordsman slashes you in the chest, bruising the muscle through the bronze chain mail shirt.
You shlash the Elite Swordsman in the chest, bruising the muscle through the bronze chain mail shirt.

Except that would be EVERY ATTACK ROUND. At least, until they pass out from exhaustion and you begin strangling them to death.

well that would be if the combatants were just that slow in the head. they should be aiming for joints or weak points in the enemy's armor. people dont tend to dress head to toe in chain mail. hit them in the face or the foot or something.

There should also eventually be a way to account for damage to the armor making it provide less protection as the fight wears on.

Just an armor damage system in general. Since we already have a wear system in place, it won't be that hard to have a placeholder system where an +Iron Breastplate+ provides more protection than an xxIron Breastplatexx.

[Nikov]

snip
The only problem I see, then, is that fights with armored opponents could last forever. I can see it now.

Elite Swordsman slashes you in the chest, bruising the muscle through the bronze chain mail shirt.
You shlash the Elite Swordsman in the chest, bruising the muscle through the bronze chain mail shirt.

Except that would be EVERY ATTACK ROUND. At least, until they pass out from exhaustion and you begin strangling them to death.

well that would be if the combatants were just that slow in the head. they should be aiming for joints or weak points in the enemy's armor. people dont tend to dress head to toe in chain mail. hit them in the face or the foot or something.

There should also eventually be a way to account for damage to the armor making it provide less protection as the fight wears on.

Just an armor damage system in general. Since we already have a wear system in place, it won't be that hard to have a placeholder system where an +Iron Breastplate+ provides more protection than an xxIron Breastplatexx.

Um, well before this point one of the combatants will get wise and thrust the sword through the mail rather than slash the sword's edge along the mail. And yes, a thrust penetrates mail.