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[C4lv1n]

Here's my arguement:

You hit someone with a sword/axe/insertsharpobject, they will be badly cut, and will start to bleed out/loose limbs. But if you hit someone with a warhammer/baseballbat/insertsomethingblunt, you're probly not going to do nearly the same damage, sure they'll get knocked back, mabey break bones, definitly get a nasty bruise, but unless the broken bone pirces a vein/artery it's not going to make them bleed out, and it's not going to be that life threatening (Realitive to a sword, etc.)

Really the only thing needing fixing is the unkillables, and the fact that you don't really die from burns or organ failure.

I apologize if I am mis-interpreting people's difficulties with the system, mabey everyone has already seen this, but I don't think so.

[Ultimuh]

Well, some people don't want realism, they want funny and/or awesome stuff to happen.
I myself like abit of both.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Toady has said that the wounds system is supposed to be ultra-realistic. That is why there are no hit points in DF, just wounds that stop your body's ability to function, like in real life.

[cganya]

if you want realism then bladed weapons should make short work of unarmored targets, peircing weapons should make short work of unarmored or lightly armored foes and blunt weapons should make short work of heavily armored foes.

I know it sounds rock paper scissors but think of the reasons for the different kinds of armor (none, leather, chain and plate make good examples). Maces and war hammers dent plate-mail inwards and if spiked will penetrate and cause even more problems (similar puncture pattern as when shooting a pop can with a bb gun, jagged pieces of metal bent into flesh). The concussive force of a mace or war hammer to the helmet is often enough to knock a combatant to the ground or out cold.

A war hammer (and many styles of maces as well) have spikes that are designed to pierce heavy armor like it was tinfoil. the spike on a war hammer is comparable in length to a short dagger. against common perception, a war hammer is not some large mallet or sledge shaped weapon (like in Warcraft) but looks more like a common nail hammer of modern times but larger and much heavier. They usually have a spike opposite of the nose of the hammer as well as a spike off the top.

A slashing or peircing weapon would be at a huge disadvantage against plate-mail. The peircing weapon would need a lot of force behind it (which is why a war hammer's spike is so effective) to puncture the metal plates (arrows wouldn't quite do it).

Leather would be much more effective against a bludgeoning weapon because it softens the impact without denting inwards. Leather helmet don't really stop bludgeon weapons though.

Personally I like (the idea of) halberds. combines the best of peircing, slashing and bludgeoning in one big package.

Now since this is DF. Item quality and materials would be a big factor. An adamantine longsword could probably slash through iron plate mail like it was leather while a tin war hammer would probably bounce off of a steel plate mail.

[C4lv1n]

It would be useful if blunt weapons KO'ed people more often, and if yu could remove people's armour while KO'ed (Unless you can already do that with wrestling...)

[wolflance]

@cganya
You are right for the most part, but real life medieval war hammer only weight about 1kg - Lighter than most sword, mace and axe(obviously) of the same age. Definitely lighter than modern nailing hammer. And their spiky end don't really as long as a dagger. These war hammer are brutally efficient at taking armored foes - even those encased in plate armor.

One thing I think DF gets wrong is this: A sword should sever limbs much, much more easily than an axe. However axe strikes harder, and do better against armored opponent.

[3]

Really the only thing needing fixing is the unkillables, and the fact that you don't really die from burns or organ failure.

You're right, and this has been the problem since the initial 0.31 release. The problem is that either things don't die when they should (especially mundane things), and even if they shouldn't die, there aren't any contingencies in place in case the target is immobilized or otherwise taken out of the fight but isn't killed (which leads to the classic "dwarf wrestling a deer for ten months" situation). The obvious solutions are tracking of internal damage and AI improvements, both of which have been/are being discussed.

Other than that, some of the weapons seem to have fairly arbitary settings, but it mainly works.

[LukeRM]

It would be useful if blunt weapons KO'ed people more often, and if yu could remove people's armour while KO'ed (Unless you can already do that with wrestling...)

Uh, you can remove items by grabbing (wrestling with a grasp) the article of clothing, pressing I (capital), and pressing the key of the item you're holding.

I agree with you in the sense that organ failure and burns don't kill. External bleeding, hemorrhaging and extensive beating should kill you long before all your organs have ceased to function. A lot of these things are not well implemented yet however. We have to remember we are playing an game in alpha (especially a game developed by just 1 person.)

[ManaUser]

@cganya
You are right for the most part, but real life medieval war hammer only weight about 1kg - Lighter than most sword, mace and axe(obviously) of the same age. Definitely lighter than modern nailing hammer.

At the risk of belaboring the point, a modern nailing hammer doesn't weigh more than a kilogram either. Based on extensive research, I'd say one pound (16 oz) was more typical in real life. That's just the head, but the total weight still comes out under 2lb or 1kg.

[Ultimate Carl]

I think the problem most people (myself included) have is not the individual balance between weapons, but the uselessness (not by comparison, in general) of blunt weapons.

I'm fine with blunt weapons not hacking off limbs or causing the same level of bleeding that edged weapons do, but right now it's like you're having a pillow-fight with the enemy.  No, getting whacked by a warhammer in the chest may not instantly kill you, remove a limb, or cause you to bleed out in a number of seconds and that's fine, keep it that way.  The issue is that if that same guy keeps whacking you with that same warhammer repeatedly, it's going to kill you.  In-game right now? Ehh, not so much.

[Vester]

At any rate, being smacked hard enough in the chest by a blunt weapon should stave in your armor and drive your ribs into your lungs.

[cganya]

At any rate, being smacked hard enough in the chest by a blunt weapon should stave in your armor and drive your ribs into your lungs.

not to mention throw your heart off rhythm every now and then.

[Funk]

sady the only war a blunt weapon can kill is to A)bruise both lungs
B)smash the skull in to the brain

[piecewise]

Looking at this purely realistically we must remember that blunt weapons CAN cause massive internal bleeding through simple smashing action. People are killed by a punch to the stomach because it ruptures organs and blood vessels and they just bleed to death like that. Beyond that, bashing someone with the object causes muscle damage which can lead to crush syndrome like effects that damage the internal organs.

For blunt weapons to really be effective the game has to be able to allow them to do damage to things beneath the skin and for those things to be fatal. This means that organs actually have to do what organs do as opposed to just sit there.

[Leesin]

I just personally dislike how the axe just severs everything, should be a far rarer occurance with any weapon, it's just not fun dismembering limbs in every swing, but of course that is my own personal opinion and preference, I am biased for realism.