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Author Topic: Swat team raids house and kills pets over a small amount of pot.  (Read 14421 times)

Agdune

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Re: Swat team raids house and kills pets over a small amount of pot.
« Reply #240 on: May 31, 2010, 08:19:33 pm »

Quote
Corperations wouldn't sell it. Theres no money to be made selling pot if it's legal. It's a plant that anyone can grow in a copboard or wardrobe or attic or whatever. You aren't going to go down to the shops and plonk down 20 quid for a few grams when you can grow ounces of it yourself for basically free.

Even if not everyone bothers to grow it themselves, there'll be enough people growing that it'll work out cheaper to just thow your friend some cash and get them to do all the work for you.

Though now that I've typed that I realise that people will pay outrageous amounts for water... So I guess I'm probobly overestimating the masses.

We already have a precedent for this: Tobacco gets confiscated occasionally here by Australian customs - usually they only seem to respond to the Tobacco black market if it's in the range of tons however - as contraband. Since the storebought stuff is so heavily taxed (part of the anti-smoking campaign's very sensible tactic of making it worthwhile for people to quit buying packets a day), it becomes profitable to bring the stuff in bulk amounts to sell off, undercutting the govt. regulated price. Until you get caught and fined and ungodly amount, anyway. I imagine the huge fines and possible jail sentences probably cut into the profit margins.

Point is, even if it's easy to grow it, people will probably do the easier thing and buy it, since that carries no risk of contraband charges for like $2 extra on the price.

What I never liked about customs intercepting Tobacco is that the illegally grown stuff probably has half as many creepy additives as the typical store bought stuff.
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Josephus

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Re: Swat team raids house and kills pets over a small amount of pot.
« Reply #241 on: May 31, 2010, 08:27:04 pm »

This is why you move to a country where cigarettes are less than a dollar a pack.
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Agdune

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Re: Swat team raids house and kills pets over a small amount of pot.
« Reply #242 on: May 31, 2010, 08:37:10 pm »

That way you get to enjoy long-term addiction and heath problems. Everyone wins!
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Josephus

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Re: Swat team raids house and kills pets over a small amount of pot.
« Reply #243 on: May 31, 2010, 08:43:52 pm »

Fuck yeah!

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm no enemy to pot decriminalization, but dammit, I like my cigarettes.
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Duuvian

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Re: Swat team raids house and kills pets over a small amount of pot.
« Reply #244 on: May 31, 2010, 09:02:02 pm »

I still think a limit of say 5 pounds per individual is a good idea. That way if a company wanted to sell 50 pounds, they'd have to hire 10 people, and so on. This would encourage employment and high prices for what is essentially a luxury, OR, a lack of large companies altogether due to not being able to afford wages. Either way, people could grow enough for most people's personal use, and if they smoke all they've grown people who don't smoke it can sell them theirs.

Also, the limit would keep all those cornfields you drive past on the way to work from turning into fields of pot plants the next planting season if prices don't lower significantly.

I've heard that a good deal on a pound of  mid grade pot is $1,200 in my area. That's a rate that if you sell quarter pounds for $400, or $100 an ounce, you make $400 from a pound, or a quarter pound to smoke yourself. Ounces tend to go for $110-120, and as you go into the fractions of an ounce for every time it's halved you pay $5 or $10 more. This allows a system of small timers who sell eighths through an ounce, they generally buy ounces. Then you have the ounce guys who buy from people who buy quarter pounds, who buy from the pound guys. Generally though the bigger you can buy the cheaper it is, while the smaller you sell the more profit per weight you achieve. However the bigger people don't like to sell small bags because then they become known by tons and tons of people because of the pyramid effect.

It's really an amazing bit of economics. By the way, did you know that 9/10s of colonial merchants at the time of the revolution were smugglers? John Hancock was the most prominent one, they called him the Prince.

This was due to English prohibiting trade with countries other than it and it's colonies. The French sold Molasses cheaper on their Caribbean Islands than the British did on theirs, and Molasses is a component of Rum. The colonists bought cheap, illegal French Molasses, turned it into Rum, and traded it for African slaves in Africa as part of the triangle trade route.

This was true of many manufactured goods as well. Britain forbade the export of many manufactured goods from America, and made production of others illegal. This was because their theory was that America would supply raw materials and provide an excellent market for British good since they wouldn't be allowed to make their own. Britain also tended to request payment in the form of coinage, and put various restrictions on the colonists about making their own paper money. As a result there were very few coins in America, especially if you weren't living in a port town. As a result the colonists were forced to go to a barter system for New World commerce. Also, the Indians didn't care a bit about coins but would happily swap goods, so the economy adapted in a way that was pretty unique until after the Revolution.

I just thought I'd mention it because while they aren't very similar you can see how common sense and necessity influence stuff like this and how the lack of such things tends to hurt governments.

EDIT: By the way, is it illegal to acknowledge that I've heard discussions about drug prices? USA Federal law I mean?
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 09:07:24 pm by Duuvian »
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Swat team raids house and kills pets over a small amount of pot.
« Reply #245 on: May 31, 2010, 09:06:53 pm »

And this is what, in theory, the FDA is supposed to avert. If they were to really, oh, I don't know, enforce the safety standards on products; then perhaps we wouldn't have to deal with creepy additives. Or mass cancer development in a few decades, because less than 5% of chemicals used in food and drug production are approved.

And there shouldn't be a personal limit.
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Duuvian

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Re: Swat team raids house and kills pets over a small amount of pot.
« Reply #246 on: May 31, 2010, 09:07:51 pm »

And this is what, in theory, the FDA is supposed to avert. If they were to really, oh, I don't know, enforce the safety standards on products; then perhaps we wouldn't have to deal with creepy additives. Or mass cancer development in a few decades, because less than 5% of chemicals used in food and drug production are approved.

And there shouldn't be a personal limit.

Why?
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smjjames

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Re: Swat team raids house and kills pets over a small amount of pot.
« Reply #247 on: May 31, 2010, 09:18:32 pm »

And this is what, in theory, the FDA is supposed to avert. If they were to really, oh, I don't know, enforce the safety standards on products; then perhaps we wouldn't have to deal with creepy additives. Or mass cancer development in a few decades, because less than 5% of chemicals used in food and drug production are approved.

And there shouldn't be a personal limit.

Why?

Primarily because the FDA is poorly funded.......
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fenrif

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Re: Swat team raids house and kills pets over a small amount of pot.
« Reply #248 on: May 31, 2010, 09:33:00 pm »

Quote
Corperations wouldn't sell it. Theres no money to be made selling pot if it's legal. It's a plant that anyone can grow in a copboard or wardrobe or attic or whatever. You aren't going to go down to the shops and plonk down 20 quid for a few grams when you can grow ounces of it yourself for basically free.

Even if not everyone bothers to grow it themselves, there'll be enough people growing that it'll work out cheaper to just thow your friend some cash and get them to do all the work for you.

Though now that I've typed that I realise that people will pay outrageous amounts for water... So I guess I'm probobly overestimating the masses.

We already have a precedent for this: Tobacco gets confiscated occasionally here by Australian customs - usually they only seem to respond to the Tobacco black market if it's in the range of tons however - as contraband. Since the storebought stuff is so heavily taxed (part of the anti-smoking campaign's very sensible tactic of making it worthwhile for people to quit buying packets a day), it becomes profitable to bring the stuff in bulk amounts to sell off, undercutting the govt. regulated price. Until you get caught and fined and ungodly amount, anyway. I imagine the huge fines and possible jail sentences probably cut into the profit margins.

Point is, even if it's easy to grow it, people will probably do the easier thing and buy it, since that carries no risk of contraband charges for like $2 extra on the price.

What I never liked about customs intercepting Tobacco is that the illegally grown stuff probably has half as many creepy additives as the typical store bought stuff.

I'm not sure tobacco is a good analogy for the situation. Pot is extremely easy to grow, and can have a fairly quick harvest time. I'm not 100% sure but I think tobacco takes much longer to grow and prepare, and I'm not sure you can grow it indoors.

I do agree if it was made legal people would probobly just still buy it anyway... though I imagine the price would drop right down.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Swat team raids house and kills pets over a small amount of pot.
« Reply #249 on: May 31, 2010, 10:02:44 pm »

And this is what, in theory, the FDA is supposed to avert. If they were to really, oh, I don't know, enforce the safety standards on products; then perhaps we wouldn't have to deal with creepy additives. Or mass cancer development in a few decades, because less than 5% of chemicals used in food and drug production are approved.

And there shouldn't be a personal limit.

Why?

Because you are dealing with a Moderate Libertarian here. We're kind of big on personal freedoms, even if they have some societal drawbacks. I stand by my previous plan. Sole proprietorships and partnerships, having a limited lifespan and unlimited liablity, will be unable to abuse drug production to any great degree. Corportaions, having unlimited lifespan and limited liablity, would be able to abuse drug production with great ease. My solution has the same result as your, but without compromising personal freedom.

And no, it isn't illegal to know the going rate for illegal substances. Even advocating that you actively wish to obtain any of said substance is legal. Police stings can only begin the arrest the moment money is excanged for drugs. Up until that point, the suspect hasn't commited a crime. If they were to change their mind and walk the moment they begain handing their money to the under cover cop, then there wouldn't be a damn thing the police could do about it.

EDIT: But remember, this is only both federal law and the most common state law. You might want to check up on state law if you think the cops are watching your internet.
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smigenboger

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Re: Swat team raids house and kills pets over a small amount of pot.
« Reply #250 on: May 31, 2010, 10:13:02 pm »

I've always wondered if stings would provoke people who wouldn't normally give in to prostitution or drugs to do it, causing a crime that wouldn't have normally happened. Perhaps I don't know enough about them?
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Swat team raids house and kills pets over a small amount of pot.
« Reply #251 on: May 31, 2010, 10:18:19 pm »

I've always wondered if stings would provoke people who wouldn't normally give in to prostitution or drugs to do it, causing a crime that wouldn't have normally happened. Perhaps I don't know enough about them?

Hard to say. I've watched recordings of prostitution stings, and when the girls are cops they seem mostly non-active in pushing the men to pay them. Oddly, it seems that real prostitutes can almost always pick them out, but the men never can.
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smigenboger

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Re: Swat team raids house and kills pets over a small amount of pot.
« Reply #252 on: May 31, 2010, 10:21:30 pm »

If you take them to dinner, does the illegality wear off? Always wondered where the line is drawn with that

Rerail: I bet the cannabis would probably become a controlled substance, and then either stay that way or slowly move to legality
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Swat team raids house and kills pets over a small amount of pot.
« Reply #253 on: May 31, 2010, 10:27:27 pm »

If you take them to dinner, does the illegality wear off? Always wondered where the line is drawn with that

Rerail: I bet the cannabis would probably become a controlled substance, and then either stay that way or slowly move to legality

Technicly, should you ever do anything with a girl involving her getting somthing and then have sex afterwards as a result, you can be arrested for prostitution. Vague law for the fail. Luckly, even a court appointed laywer could get you off the hook for having sex after a date, unless the prosicution was some super laywer or the jury was composed of functionaly retarded individuals. And that is a possiblity, so the police can arrest you for doing pretty much anything if they film you.
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Duuvian

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Re: Swat team raids house and kills pets over a small amount of pot.
« Reply #254 on: May 31, 2010, 11:15:32 pm »

Neat. That's re-assuring to know that theoretically they can arrest unmarried people for basic human behavior. Sounds like corruption of government to me.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Wouldn't that eventually become an economy run by the corporation's desire for profit rather than whether an individual who wants to make a few bucks on the side? Whats wrong with having just one homemade product that doesn't have to compete with (relatively) huge corporations?

EDIT: Also, if you're worried about health problems from individuals being worse than companies, lets consider a few things. First, companies have a contract that can make workers do things that might not be ethical in pursuit of profit and keep it secret or else they are fired. The farmer might also do these same things in pursuit of profit, but he doesn't have to keep it a secret. If he keeps it a secret, only he knows. If he tells someone, then they have the same choice to make, and so on. Theoretically you could have a whole bunch of corrupt farmers, but realistically I think one would one would say, "I don't think putting things into my weed is a good idea when it grows on it's own." Meanwhile, if the farmers do manage to somehow make a form of crack out of weed with homemade chemicals, the government has enough power to step in and regulate.

Now, on the other side of the coin, lets say there is an advancement in drug technology that makes current marijuana strains obsolete, perhaps through a healthier smoking variety somehow. A company, with millions of dollars invested in the current seeds and fields, would understandably try to smother this healthier weed, at least until they could switch their large operation over and use up their current multi-million dollar seed stockpile.

Meanwhile, the universe with the small farmers would recognize the advantages of a better seed stock and switch as soon as they can.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 11:47:38 pm by Duuvian »
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