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more ores and uses for them and tin

19 (33.9%)

more craftable items (bows, berry pie, fishing rods)

26 (46.4%)

Cupboards being destroyable or movable

11 (19.6%)

Total Members Voted: 56

[Googolplexed]

Everyone is missing the whole point of open-sourcing and running a seperate server.
For us to run a seperate server, we need complete control over admins, developers or otherwise.
Data, you've had a history of admin abuse, Don't try to deny It, and it seams like half the forum does not want to see you involved in anyway.

If we started our own server, then it would be open-source, but forcing all the traditional developers to be  admins is not how most games work.

That being said, at this point, the source has been leaked, you cannot deny that, and although I wouldn't use it myself, there will be people who will.

The way I see it is that you are in almost no position of power. Without your permission I would hope bay12 wouldn't go ahead with a server, but if we do, or someone else does, you honestly can't stop them.

The only way to truely try and prevent this mess is to remove the developer only restriction. Most actual developers will be more then happy to share source back.

If all the source is open, then really the only reason for one person to choose one server over another is a better play-style or enviroment.

Personally, I don't care. I don't really have much of an interest in Cowed, but I feel that some-one has to state this. Now don't go shooting the messenger.

EDIT: sorry if this seams overly hostile, but right now, theres alot of things that could happen in the event that open-sourcing goes ahead, and I don't think many of them are in your favor, but I don't really know what I would do in your position either

[quinnr]

Agreed. Cowed is medieval. Just because we happen to play a different game that is sci-fi, doesn't mean this game is going to be made sci-fi.

[Pathos]

Agreed. Cowed is medieval. Just because we happen to play a different game that is sci-fi, doesn't mean this game is going to be made sci-fi.

Also, what is Dwarf Fortress?

[quinnr]

I sense sarcasm, due to the fact that you have made 800 posts in this forum.
Even so, I shall be nice in case you aren't sarcastic:
bay12games.com/dwarves

[Pathos]

I sense sarcasm, due to the fact that you have made 800 posts in this forum.
Even so, I shall be nice in case you aren't sarcastic:
bay12games.com/dwarves

I'm referring to genre.

As in, "What genre is Dwarf Fortress, the most played game on these forums and the game every forumite should've played?" It's a rhetorical questions designed to bring attention to the fact DF's set in a medieval-style game world. I knew people wouldn't get it from just the question, hence why I added in your quote.

Also, I think I'm sounding really aggressive today, so I apologise if I'm coming off so in this post.

[quinnr]

Not really, and everyone has those days.

Dwarf Fortress is...a fantasy simulator.

[Micro102]

I think he was referring to SS13 when he said sci-fi.

I think that was an argument against maxdax and a supportive one tot he one he quoted...

I think I'm right.

Am I?

[Rakonas]

Pretty fun game, though I don't understand the combat system at all and it seems simply painful. Do any B12ers really play regularly? Haven't seen any.

[Evilgrim]

Well, my friend found this game and got me to play it.
I've been addicted ever since.

No really.

My favorite role is the king. Apparently I did well.
King of Cowmalot!

[Data]

Everyone is missing the whole point of open-sourcing and running a seperate server.
For us to run a seperate server, we need complete control over admins, developers or otherwise.

I wish to retain control of what I can do on the servers hosted on my hub.

Data, you've had a history of admin abuse, Don't try to deny It, and it seams like half the forum does not want to see you involved in anyway.

Don't think I'm going to login and abuse the crap out of anything. Including the developers is designed to show a sign of respect; worst case scenario is that I might end up banning a spammer because he threatens to crash the server, or run around with a [D] symbol over the OOC channel.

If we started our own server, then it would be open-source, but forcing all the traditional developers to be  admins is not how most games work.

I've always respected Exadv1 back in the days of SS13 and have always kept him on the list of developer-level administrators. If you won't do the same for me, I see no reason go to open-source if I'm going to lose all control.

That being said, at this point, the source has been leaked, you cannot deny that, and although I wouldn't use it myself, there will be people who will.

The source-code that was leaked is worth less than revision 1 of the current SVN. If you use it, you'll find that a lot of features are absent or incomplete, and have fun working with a game which has every code and icon file in the same folder.

The way I see it is that you are in almost no position of power. Without your permission I would hope bay12 wouldn't go ahead with a server, but if we do, or someone else does, you honestly can't stop them.

Threatening me isn't going to help me make a decision here. If you guys are going to make of the heavily outdated source-code, then so be it; it isn't even my work, as that source is from before I got here. However I still have access to revision 127+ (we moved SVN so I'm unsure about the exact number) of Cowed.

The only way to truely try and prevent this mess is to remove the developer only restriction. Most actual developers will be more then happy to share source back.

I want control over the servers and at least be able to login to them and have a [D] tag so others will recognize me as an official developer. The only reason for keeping me and other official developers on that list for the fancy [D] tag and so that in the event of an emergency we're in a position to help out. If you feel the need to remove most commands then I'm willing to let that slip, but I want my [D] tag and diplomatic immunity options.

If all the source is open, then really the only reason for one person to choose one server over another is a better play-style or enviroment.

Exactly, and I'm not going to mess with that by logging into the most popular server and acting like a dick, and I'm sure other official developers wouldn't do that either as it'll be a rule.

EDIT: sorry if this seams overly hostile, but right now, theres alot of things that could happen in the event that open-sourcing goes ahead, and I don't think many of them are in your favor, but I don't really know what I would do in your position either

I think that if I state the reasoning behind official developers having such access that it'll be alright. And if it's not, I can always turn it into a guideline ("optional rule").

[Saint]

I think we need to give Data some slack, I mean really people change, and some don't, but he might have and we need to respect that and work out an agreement for open source if you are so inclined to posess it. I personaly would like to have nothing to do with this game, however I do know a thing or two about diplomatics and how you guys are running it all wrong, you can't threaten someone over the internet and bash them into giving you what you want because this isn't a school and open source code is not lunch money, if it worked like that we could have many things by now and no one would have their own little secret project. I know that personaly I would NOT, in Data's position want to even THINK about handing out source code when most of the comments I have read are insulting and belittleing, so shape up and stop acting like little kids trying to beat up other little kids for lunch money, it won't work.

  My 2 cents,

    Saint

Pretty fun game, though I don't understand the combat system at all and it seems simply painful. Do any B12ers really play regularly? Haven't seen any.

When bovine was developing his version the combat was pretty fucking horrible, simply blunt the guy and keep him blunted until you can drag him off, strip him of ALL things he could use to escape and dig a small hole and throw him in, or simply lock him in a chest that works too, they die of hunger anyway.

[Saint]

EDIT: there is no automerge, I frogot again.

[Calhoun]

The only way to truely try and prevent this mess is to remove the developer only restriction. Most actual developers will be more then happy to share source back.

I want control over the servers and at least be able to login to them and have a [D] tag so others will recognize me as an official developer. The only reason for keeping me and other official developers on that list for the fancy [D] tag and so that in the event of an emergency we're in a position to help out. If you feel the need to remove most commands then I'm willing to let that slip, but I want my [D] tag and diplomatic immunity options.

I think that that is acceptable. I don't think anyone here wants to take away from your status as the main developer. Letting you retain the [D] Tag should be more than do-able. Really, This biggest thing that i would like, having a Bay12 server is a change of administration. I don't want to disparage any of the admins on the main server. There are even a few rather good ones. However, there are some rather bad ones who can/will ruin the fun of others, for their own amusment AND not assist players who need help.

Making it Open-source however, Is great for many reasons, but the biggest is more, rapid development, from any and all.

[quinnr]

The whole retaining all current admins, and not allowing bans through the ban files is just...weird.
What if we have multiple hosts? Then what are we supposed to do when we ban users?

And as I said, the retaining all listed developers as admins is...weird.

[Calhoun]

We wouldn't retain admins, we would just make sure that all Official Developers get a Developer tag, regardless of the server they are on. Administrators should be per server.