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[Virex]

He wasn't refering to graphics. He was comparing a bug-ridden game with lot of potential to a similar kind of movie or CD. No matter how epic the game could be, if it just doesn't work when it should, it's not a good game. Or at least that's his oppinion. My personal oppinion would be that bug fixing usualy stands in the way of content development and game desingers should only iron out the bugs if they either have the time or the bug makes the game completely unplayable (like not being able to acces a plot-critical area or the game itself) 'aestethic bugs' are best left to later patches so the desingers can work on the content.

[Grakelin]

Yes, that is what they just said.

[alway]

Considering we haven't had any games being cased in cement lately to cover up the fact that they ever existed, ET style, I would say things are going pretty well.

[Sowelu]

On the same subject as alway's post, I just wanna say:

I can't leave without my buddy Superfly!

[Pathos]

Considering we haven't had any games being cased in cement lately to cover up the fact that they ever existed, ET style, I would say things are going pretty well.

Considering most people suspect that Activision are driving us towards a video game's crash (fucking Bobby Kotick), I'd disagreed.

[Sowelu]

Eeh, I do have to agree that we're headed towards a PC gaming market crash.  Because of the DRM that every goddamn company is using these days.  Even Starcraft 2 drops you from single-player games as soon as you lose your internet connection.  I can't imagine that's going to go over too well, even for these massive, long-awaited titles.

[The butcher]

Yeah standards are slipping because most game designers only care about nowadays is graphics not gameplay.{before i said people only care about graphics not gameplay so it was a typo not a troll}

[Sowelu]

Troll.  :P

[Shades]

Yeah standards are slipping because all that people care about nowadays is graphics not gameplay.

I care about graphics, as much as I've tried I can't play any games without good graphics, even the old ones I loved, it's just distracting and not Fun.

[The butcher]

Im a troll because i think the game designers prefer to put in graphics rather than gameplay?How does that make me a troll?I still play doom,pacman etc so i don't care about graphics.[edit]Oops my last post DID sound like a troll post.

[Virtz]

Feel free to name an FPS like that has anywhere near the depth of such ones as Deux Ex or Half-life but made before.

I know this is rather late, but in terms of gameplay depth - Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri. Storyline is better than Half-Life as well (not really much of an achievement since to the player's knowledge, the storyline in HL was "fight aliens and military cleanup crew"), but it's acted out in FMVs and feels awkward.

Yeah standards are slipping because all that people care about nowadays is graphics not gameplay.

I care about graphics, as much as I've tried I can't play any games without good graphics, even the old ones I loved, it's just distracting and not Fun.

Wait, what are you doing on these forums anyway? Dwarf Fortress does not have "good graphics" (neither does any other Bay 12 game), even with any graphics pack and you can't really play using Stonesense. So technically it's not fun to you.

[Shades]

Wait, what are you doing on these forums anyway? Dwarf Fortress does not have "good graphics" (neither does any other Bay 12 game), even with any graphics pack and you can't really play using Stonesense. So technically it's not fun to you.

I don't use graphics packs, just the guybrush tile set. These tiles are pleasant to look at so achieve good graphics.
Most old games I like have low resolution graphics that look terrible which is what renders it unplayable.

For a similar reason I find the graphics packs detract from the visual on dwarf fortress as well, 16x16 pixels is just not enough to make something nice. I apologise to makers of said packs because your work is good and I know you all try, it's just too small to show off what you can do. Once we have alpha blending and zooming again in 0.31 I'll take another look at the larger packs.

Good does not require 3D it just needs to be aesthetically pleasing, there are plenty of aesthetically good 2D graphics games. Not that I'd be against a 3D dwarf fortress that also looked good.

[Virtz]

Wait, what are you doing on these forums anyway? Dwarf Fortress does not have "good graphics" (neither does any other Bay 12 game), even with any graphics pack and you can't really play using Stonesense. So technically it's not fun to you.

I don't use graphics packs, just the guybrush tile set. These tiles are pleasant to look at so achieve good graphics.
Most old games I like have low resolution graphics that look terrible which is what renders it unplayable.

For a similar reason I find the graphics packs detract from the visual on dwarf fortress as well, 16x16 pixels is just not enough to make something nice. I apologise to makers of said packs because your work is good and I know you all try, it's just too small to show off what you can do. Once we have alpha blending and zooming again in 0.31 I'll take another look at the larger packs.

Good does not require 3D it just needs to be aesthetically pleasing, there are plenty of aesthetically good 2D graphics games. Not that I'd be against a 3D dwarf fortress that also looked good.

So you wouldn't consider any old game aesthetically pleasing simply due to lower resolution? Dominus? Dungeon Keeper? Jagged Alliance? Syndicate?

[Shades]

So you wouldn't consider any old game aesthetically pleasing simply due to lower resolution? Dominus? Dungeon Keeper? Jagged Alliance? Syndicate?

Generally yes which is most annoying in the case of both syndicate and dungeon keeper as I really like those games. The graphics detract enough that I don't find the game as enjoyable.

[Zaranthan]

Dungeon Keeper 1's graphics are actually dated enough to matter. Compared to even contemporary titles like Command and Conquer, the camera feels stiff and can make it difficult to see what's happening. This, however, goes back to the point I made a few posts back: it's not that the gameplay is poor, or the design short-sighted, merely that the graphical limitations are an obstacle to seeing what's happening. Drop a couple bile demons on a fight, and their stench auras cover up all of the action! If you send in a few warlocks to burn through the enemy's blockers, you can't tell which one they're shooting, because the monsters scrabble and overlap in a big melee. If your walls get breached in a big, open room, you can get a good view by positioning the camera over the open space, but if they come in on a single-tile hallway, good luck keeping your lightning bolts from hitting your own goblins.

Was it a great game? Of course! Did the sequel's graphical upgrade make the game VASTLY easier to play? You bet.