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[bdog]

Hell-o!

I did some tests with dfprobe (dfhack tool) and made some changes in raws with my voodoo-programming alike skills [read: I don't really know what I'm doing ^^, ].


Ok, knowing that:

• UG temperature = 10015U
• UG temp. near magma = 10100U
• AG temp. (temperate) = 10049U
• avg. dwarf temp = 10067U
• alcohol template MELTING_POINT = 9850U

I did:

• set the MELTING_POINT of alcohol template to 10090 (higher than average dwarf should have, lower than near magma tiles have)
• put booze stockpiles above magma
• put kitchen and kitchen stockpile far away from magma (to be sure that room temperature will be around 10015U)

Results (so far):

• as one would think all my booze changed into frozen state after reload
• booze in the stockpile above magma changed back to liquid in some time (in-game days i think) but they didn't appear on z-drink / z-stocks again, unfortunately. I don't have much time to do more testing but it looked like they ware drinking it anyway
• all new booze was created in liquid form (but turned into frozen state some time later when hauled to kitchen stockpile)
• roast made from frozen liquid DID work (no job cancellations or booze spilling on the floor, think about that like "Dwarven Wine Ice-cream Roast ^^, ) at least in cold environment

The Thing is - its so much pain in the ass to setup that correctly and in RP point of view who would want to drink warm beer?
My question is: Would it be possible to make some stone layer (in example pseudo cave ice) that would radiate low temperature (as a layer or boulders)?
That way one could make a dwarvish freezer room near kitchen to hold frozen desserts ^^,

Any ideas or "ready to use" solution?


PS: First post on the forums, yay ^^, hi everyone!

[Ironhand]

Welcome to the crazyhouse!

I love this idea. If it's possible, you could also do stuff like
plant tiny pockets of super-hot stones in stone layers.

Dangerous fun for your miners to break into.

[Lancensis]

The Thing is - its so much pain in the ass to setup that correctly and in RP point of view who would want to drink warm beer?
My question is: Would it be possible to make some stone layer (in example pseudo cave ice) that would radiate low temperature (as a layer or boulders)?
That way one could make a dwarvish freezer room near kitchen to hold frozen desserts ^^,

Any ideas or "ready to use" solution?


PS: First post on the forums, yay ^^, hi everyone!

Yeah, you want [MAT_FIXED_TEMP:x]. That will only work with the boulders, I belive - though you could experiment with making a workshop out of it? You'll have to play around with a solution that'll suck enough heat out of the surroundings to keep stuff cold, but also not obliterate your dwarves. Although you could make a specialised caste like Deon's Ice Dwarves that are the only ones resistant to cold enough to use it safely.
Looks interesting anyhow.

[bdog]

I did a little more testing regarding cold stone and as I see it right now its a no-go (yet, I'm newbie in moding so I hope I'm wrong with this)
It looks like MAT_FIXED_TEMP on stones is checked only when game determines boulder state (when it should melt/boil/ignite)

In the mean time I was attacked by magma-man (he was bited to death by my stray dog and wandering elephants, lucky me ^^)
BUT it gave me an idea - if magma-man could increase heat to degree where everything started to !!fire!! (and dfprobe said that temp near him is bigger than avg) - maybe it could be possible to make some cold radiating pet?

I don't quite like an idea of walking freezers (in RP way) but oh well - it's better that than nothing
Just imagine Ice Dwarves with Ice Dogs... (and maybe Hot Dwarves with Hot Dogs ^^, )

[Shoku]

You could give them the land immobile tag once you had them in place.

[Deon]

They will still move around, albeit very slowly

[Shaostoul]

I believe it's nether cap that has a low fixed temp which would essentially chill drinks if you made barrels and whatever else out of it. Walk-in fridge anyone?

You could make a gem that would chill/heat things and make a reaction to produce said gem and try to find some way to build stuff out of it? A tree might also be a viable idea cause you can make it so they don't show up naturally at all.

[Djohaal]

I did something smilar to what you did but with boilable venom boulders. The results were most interesting. (And thank me for suggesting peterix to make the dfprobe tool  )

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=56313.0

I wonder if the fixed_temp tag works for constructs. Would a room made of nether cap logs be colder than average?

[bdog]

I believe it's nether cap that has a low fixed temp which would essentially chill drinks if you made barrels and whatever else out of it. Walk-in fridge anyone?

After short tests yesterday I believe that its not possible (at least with current version) - I did set [MAT_FIXED_TEMP:x] on stone and wood template and no booze turned into frozen state (nor did change AG/UG temperature reported by dfprobe, so no-go)

I wonder if the fixed_temp tag works for constructs. Would a room made of nether cap logs be colder than average?

It wouldn't, unfortunately :| at least in my tests game but I'm not a guru here so I would suggest you all making own tests (to prove me how dumb I am and that I could get cold stone in 0.31.03)

I did something smilar to what you did but with boilable venom boulders. The results were most interesting. (And thank me for suggesting peterix to make the dfprobe tool  )

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=56313.0

You got me there, the whole idea was from your venom trap and your sig ^^, I was like
"Holy crap, awesome! Huh? Roasts? Boozecooking? Boiling? Maybe freezing? I must try it on my own!"
Also I did read peterix dfhack thread and saw your posts and all but I lost track of this somewhere in the middle of posting... this might be a little late but sorry and THANK YOU!

You could give them the land immobile tag once you had them in place.

They will still move around, albeit very slowly

I'll try that
when I'll woke up properly (GMT+1), sober up and get done with rl job (read it as "give me at least 24h" in the mean time you can try to make your own freezing pet and share it here ^^, )
Also if heat radiation works as I think it works it should be possible to make 1x1 tile pits (if its z-level aware) or chains to keep those pets in order.

[bdog]

Bumping
and

I give up. It seems that I wont have enough time to test and play with raws in next two/three weeks. (rl vile force of darkness with support from forgotten beast known as Deadline)

If someone could finish this before this thread will be lost and forgot then fell free to do so
I'll sacrifice 10 dwarfs and few elf civs for anyone who is willing to continue this ^^, you know, for science.

[Djohaal]

I believe it's nether cap that has a low fixed temp which would essentially chill drinks if you made barrels and whatever else out of it. Walk-in fridge anyone?

After short tests yesterday I believe that its not possible (at least with current version) - I did set [MAT_FIXED_TEMP:x] on stone and wood template and no booze turned into frozen state (nor did change AG/UG temperature reported by dfprobe, so no-go)
 

Hm, two things, did you modify the proper raw files? each save game has its own little raw files. Second, did you check if nether cap flooring is colder than average with the dfprobe tool? Temperature affecting stuff inside barrels seems to not work properly.

[bdog]

Hm, two things, did you modify the proper raw files? each save game has its own little raw files. Second, did you check if nether cap flooring is colder than average with the dfprobe tool? Temperature affecting stuff inside barrels seems to not work properly.

Yeah, I did change the good raws (if I didn't know about that my first test with booze wouldn't work)

I changed MAT_FIXED_TEMP in stone and wood template to 3000 (maybe too low? Is there some kind of lower cap?) and nothing changed. Inside was still at 10015U and AG was 10051U for half of my map and 10049U for second half (on trees, near trees, near logs, near water, in water etc)

I can upload my save If you want.

[bdog]

Ok, one movie will say more than thousand words: http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-2155-icymules

While I had a little time I added this to mules:

Code: [Select]

[HOMEOTHERM:9000]
[FIXED_TEMP:9000]

not sure if this add anything
[SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
[IF_EXISTS_SET_HEATDAM_POINT:13000]
[IF_EXISTS_SET_IGNITE_POINT:13000]
[IF_EXISTS_SET_MELTING_POINT:13000]
[IF_EXISTS_SET_BOILING_POINT:15000]
The tiles where mule was standing had:

Code: [Select]

temperature1: 9919 U
temperature2: 10015 Utile next to him temperature1: 9968U and tile and the next tile was at 10015U.

The more mules the better - on tiles when one mule was standing and the other one was next to him temperature1 got to 9887U (what is still too high to froze alcohol)

Note that I don't know what is temperature2 in dfprobe.exe all I saw that it didn't change at all.

Second part of movie demonstrates how temperature works with water... and how it kills my test subject ^^
Note how tiles are glitching and are marked as "Inside" on tiles where Ice wall was.
Btw ice boulders which comes from this "reaction" can be used to build constructions and buildings (as long as they don't melt on the way) or can be stored near other mules ^^,

EDIT
It looks like I'm talking here to myself, but ahh, who cares, its science
I did run more tests with ice mules.
This time fixed_temp/homeotherm = 8500 and petvalue=1 so I could buy more on embark (60 mules, whoa)... it was more fun than I could think... good thing that I separated (via burrows and separate meeting zone) them from my dwarfs, too bad that my dogs died.

Long story short (aka what I have observed in this sandbox):
- temperature works with cages - yeah, I caged them and it's still working, it was so much fun when my wooden cage vanished from cold damage
- the more mules in one cage the colder it gets - temp. on cage with 3 mules = 9631U, with 58 = 8722U.
- temp. from pet is quite... nerfed? - it doesn't change temp. on z+1/z-1 levels only few tiles near creature

Code: [Select]

NNNNN
NHHHN
NHWHN
NHHHN
NNNNN
N- normal temperature, H- hot/cold, W-warm/freezing[tile w/ creature]
- it works with alcohol - "works", in my test I only had wooden and aqua-spoilerish barrels. Wooden vanished from cold damage leaving frozen alcohol on the ground, with the second material alcohol didn't turn to ice (nor the barrels disappeared)
- due to previous two points I couldn't make frozen roasts - even with vanilla SPEC_HEAT (which is quite high iirc) alcohol without barrel melted and splattered on kitchen floor AND it's quite impossible to cover entire kitchen area with low temperature (3x3tiles, the one in the center always will be with normal temperature)
- weird thing is that it works with wooden barrels and milk (milk have higher melting point than alcohol and higher than wood colddam). I guess that still need some testing and confirmation, yet I don't want to mess too much with vanilla temperatures and melting points.

Testing, testing, testing... if anyone is willing to help with that pm me

[Arkenstone]

How about adding "spirits of cold/heat" that are worthless except for the fact that they make the room hotter/colder?  Base them off of the tribble fluffy wambler.

[Lancensis]

How about a creature that secretes a cold material? Might be able to spread a bit more that way?