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Author Topic: Underground Plants?  (Read 3559 times)

Alkyon

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Underground Plants?
« on: May 03, 2010, 01:42:26 am »
So far, like most everyone else, I'm loving the underground areas (not counting the undead forts that kill my FPS from all the zombies trying to path their way to me), however something seems a bit off.  I understand that dwarfs are the "masters" of the underground, which is why they start out with a lot of underground plants at their disposal.  However, the dwarfs don't start out with any underground creatures unless you mod them in.  This made me think:  Why do the dwarfs start with all the underground plants available?  Shouldn't there be some plants that have to be harvested at least once underground to have available?  Some rare and valuable plants that can only be found after breaching the second or third cavern with special properties (like toxins for your weapons once someone gets that working, or a salve that can be used by doctors to drastically reduce the chance of infection), including some that can't be farmed like kobold bulb and valley herb on the surface.

EDIT:  Here are the plants I have created so far:  The weedlike Cave Vine.  It's cheep, it's nasty, and practically grows fast enough for you to watch with your naked eye, but it keeps your dwarfs fed and boozed up.  I honestly can't decide if this should be available to the dwarf civs, or limited to the lower caverns. The valuable Blood Boil, producing valuable bloodwine and lifeblood syrup.  Finally, the Mithril Cotton plant, able to make valuable threads that can be woven into cloth and then smelted into lightweight mithril wafers.  Right now, the plants all have glitched images (cave vine and blood boil are solid black blocks, mithril cotton is a solid white block) because I thought the color values are RGB.  If anyone has any suggestions for how they should look/be colored, feel free to speak up.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here's the reaction to take a piece of cloth and turn it into a mithril wafer.  I tried using thread, but it never worked without the risk of turning the smelting process into a dwarf black hole where the smelting dwarf would take every nearby item (logs, barrels of booze, barrels of plants and fat, gems, other mithril bars, etc.) until he had 15000 thread (1 piece of thread, or 2 pieces of cloth) and one unit of fuel.  Now, remember to add the reaction to the dwarf civilization entity.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Finally, here's mithril itself.  It has amazingly high tensile strength, but melts at the same temperature as gold and is only slightly better in other ways than copper.  Right now it has a lovely dark blue color, a lot like kimberlite.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT2:  More new plants!  Cave weed and sea grass, both are plants that can be baked into charcoal at a kiln.  Insipiration?  Maps that have no readily available source of magma or fuel and the real life use of drying out seaweed for fuel.  Also, cave weed cannot be eaten, while sea grass can be.  Sea grass can be found on the coasts and cave weed can be found in the second cave level down.  Right now they are visually exact clones of quarry bushes, so I'm still hoping someone will come by and give me some icon/color sets that work well in ASCII.

The plants:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And the reactions.  Remember to activate these in the entity files.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Allright, adding GRead's plants up here.  Added [GOOD], [EVIL] or [SAVAGE] tags to some so that you underground isn't the same all the time with all the same plants.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 03:08:47 pm by Alkyon »
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Quote from: JmzLost on April 03, 2010, 07:43:50 pm
Since when has practical had anything to do with dwarfy?

Christes

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Re: Underground Plants?
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2010, 02:23:41 am »
I love the idea of new "plants" from the deep.  It's really less of a concern that the dwarves start with too large of a "plant" selection.  It's more like there should be more "plants" deep underground.

I'd go so far as to say this should be in the suggestions forum.
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Alkyon

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Re: Underground Plants?
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2010, 02:28:34 am »
Ah, well I'm glad you think that, but before I do that, I'd really like some ideas to add myself.  I want something to add to my world besides dwarven cave pigs and I think it's about time I regenned a world anyways.  I've lost too many forts/dwarves to spontaneous dwarven liposuction (the melting rain bug) in this world.  :'(

I've been thinking about it, and I think it would be rather cool to create a series of deep plants that create "threads" of metal like adamanitum, only far less valuable than the "blue gold" and maybe a bit better than steel for weapon and armor use.  A chest-plate made out of metal threads might make a really good armor against piercing blows.

Anyways, thanks for the encouragement, but I'd really like a few reasonably balanced plant ideas that add to the feel of the world if I do make a suggestion post so that others can get a feeling of what I'm talking about (and to give Toady a bit less to work on if he likes my ideas, he's got enough work already at being awesome that the community can take up some of the slack on details).

Edit:  Looked again and found the file I was looking for, plant_standard.txt.  I feel like an idiot.  Time for me to go fiddle. >.>
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 02:55:47 am by Alkyon »
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Quote from: JmzLost on April 03, 2010, 07:43:50 pm
Since when has practical had anything to do with dwarfy?

masakhan

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Re: Underground Plants?
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2010, 11:38:41 am »
You could increase the [MATERIAL_VALUE:] tag on the plant(and the seed) to an absurd level. This would make it highly unlikely that anyone could embark with it.
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Alkyon

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Re: Underground Plants?
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2010, 12:56:24 pm »
I did a bit more looking and realized that I'm not the first person to talk about underground plants.  Chariot did a lot of work with plants for the Genesis mod, albeit most of those plants were underground versions of existing plants (cave corn and cave lettuce and such)

Anyways, after a bit of work, I came up with what's supposed to basically be a fungal kudzu plant.  Not worth anything, but should grow like weeds.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And the blood boil, that you can make incredibly valuable bloodwine or lifeblood syrup from, but grows very slowly and in small groups.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Anyways, feel free to toss any suggestions/plants of your own in here, or tell me if you found anything that would ruin my plants so far.

Edit:  Generated a new world  Apparently any underground plants that are available at the first cavern ( [UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:x] ) are available to the dwarf civ.  Cave vines and related products (seeds, alcohol) are available in the embark screen, blood boils aren't.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2010, 12:29:36 pm by Alkyon »
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Quote from: JmzLost on April 03, 2010, 07:43:50 pm
Since when has practical had anything to do with dwarfy?

Deon

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Re: Underground Plants?
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2010, 02:41:20 pm »
You probably want to remove EDIBLE_COOKED from the cave spirits. Neat plants, I like them. Why are they so valuable? I mean, cave spirits are 15(!!!), and blood wine is bloody 25 :). You know that they brew a lot of it from a single plant, and in stack each single "unit" will be worth of it, right? :)
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masakhan

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Re: Underground Plants?
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2010, 02:53:34 pm »
Quote
Neat plants, I like them. Why are they so valuable? I mean, cave spirits are 15(!!!), and blood wine is bloody 25 :). You know that they brew a lot of it from a single plant, and in stack each single "unit" will be worth of it, right?

It's value is high so you can't embark with it.
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Deon

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Re: Underground Plants?
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2010, 02:57:35 pm »
You can embark with its seeds. And then... BOOM! :) The market is in ruins.
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Knight Otu

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Re: Underground Plants?
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2010, 02:59:44 pm »
Well, as already noted, you can put the plants into lower caves to prevent the dwarves from embarking with them.
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Alkyon

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Re: Underground Plants?
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2010, 03:52:29 pm »
Quote from: Deon on May 03, 2010, 02:41:20 pm
You probably want to remove EDIBLE_COOKED from the cave spirits. Neat plants, I like them. Why are they so valuable? I mean, cave spirits are 15(!!!), and blood wine is bloody 25 :). You know that they brew a lot of it from a single plant, and in stack each single "unit" will be worth of it, right? :)

Ah, right, that is high.  I flubbed the values, I was looking at the values of flower and extract.  I'll fix that.  XD

Cave spirits should be cheap, and blood wine was supposed to be on the level of whip wine or, since only dwarves can make it, sun shine, but I flubbed it up.  I'm glad that you like them though.  As for the EDIBLE_COOKED, that's on all the other drinks as well and it allows you to cook it.  I removed EDIBLE_COOKED from bloodwine because it's already valuable (accidentally ridiculously so) and you have to cook lifeblood syrup to eat it.

Anyways, give me a moment to fix everything.  Did anyone have they're own plant ideas?  I'm still thinking about the idea of a metal plant (I'll need some help with the smelter reactions for it), a few more dies (indigo maybe?) and perhaps a booze so potent that it makes elves and humans sick. >:D
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Quote from: JmzLost on April 03, 2010, 07:43:50 pm
Since when has practical had anything to do with dwarfy?

Deon

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Re: Underground Plants?
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2010, 03:54:51 pm »
Quote
As for the EDIBLE_COOKED, that's on all the other drinks as well and it allows you to cook it.
But the roasts of alcohols will melt once a dwarf touches them. That's why I removed EDIBLE_COOKED from all drinks in Genesis mod :).
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Alkyon

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Re: Underground Plants?
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2010, 04:11:22 pm »
Quote from: Deon on May 03, 2010, 03:54:51 pm
Quote
As for the EDIBLE_COOKED, that's on all the other drinks as well and it allows you to cook it.
But the roasts of alcohols will melt once a dwarf touches them. That's why I removed EDIBLE_COOKED from all drinks in Genesis mod :).

Yes, I really wish Toady would make it so that all dwarven biscuits, roasts and stews need at least one solid food item...personally, I'd leave the stuff as-is and just forbid the cooking of booze in the kitchen menu.  That's what I always did before when I played stock 40d (didn't really get into modding until DF2010).  Being able to feed your fort on booze roasts always seemed a bit cheep to me.

Anyways, I'm glad I've got the attention of one of the bigger modders on the forums.  Do you have any ideas to add here?
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Quote from: JmzLost on April 03, 2010, 07:43:50 pm
Since when has practical had anything to do with dwarfy?

Deon

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Re: Underground Plants?
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2010, 04:34:40 pm »
An idea: what if I borrow them? :) Cave vine looks fine, but Blood Boil sounds awesome. I would rename it to Blood Blain though, and call the drink "blood of Armok" :).
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Alkyon

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Re: Underground Plants?
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2010, 04:41:14 pm »
That works.  I noticed Chariot's work in the Genesis mod, but he added mostly subterranean versions of existing plants with no neat details.  Feel free to suggest any ideas for plants or little details like names and such.  If you have any ideas or suggestions how to make, say, mithril bushes that can be processed for threads of mithril, I'd love to hear it.  Or, a race of pod-people that can be grown to harvest the massive mithril plantations. XD
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Quote from: JmzLost on April 03, 2010, 07:43:50 pm
Since when has practical had anything to do with dwarfy?

Alkyon

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Re: Underground Plants?
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2010, 12:33:57 pm »
Edit:  Modded Cave Vines so they are worth less, but you get more.  The plants only have a matvalue of 1 now, but a cluster value of 6.  I'm thinking of moving them to the lower caverns to prevent anyone actually using my ideas from embarking with super-cheap food.  Though, there is a bit of an issue with the vines.   Right now, they show up as farm plots as empty black squares.

Anyways, come one, someone else has to flora ideas to add more flavor to the underground.  Post people, even if it's just ideas.
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Quote from: JmzLost on April 03, 2010, 07:43:50 pm
Since when has practical had anything to do with dwarfy?
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