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[mission0]

BOTG was in it's third version when I first came here to the bay12 forums and after that version it seems to have declined greatly. Where players used to actively participate in the role playing it seems to die down rather quickly from people not wanting to commit the time necessary to the game. My basic question is what was it about the first, second, and third versions of BOTG that kept the players interested and brought in new players to keep the game running rather than having them stall out after only a few turns.

To put it simply what first brought people in to play BOTG and what kept them interested, then after this idea is established and agreed upon how could we possibly improve upon this mechanic or simply just go back to it so that the game can continue living.

Links to the first three Botg's

I: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=646.0
II: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=40483.0
III: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=22037.0

[Emperor_Jonathan]

People look at the game, thinks that it looks fun. They go the first couple turns in excitement before becoming bored, stagnating, slowing and eventually leaving.

In my opinion, BotG isn't so much a game as it is a platform for roleplay, and lets be honest, that's not everyones thing.

[Kagus]

Heh, I remember writing up Yagesh...  Ended up shooting myself in the foot, since that map was so small the only source of water was that little lake.  I was bound and determined to set up a nice underwater citadel for those Aegeans (ripped almost wholesale out of the Dominions series). 

The first battle was almost entirely roleplaying.  There were no real rules to speak of, so we basically just had to make up fights on the fly and try to get away with it.

While I can fully understand and appreciate the desire for a slightly more defined set of rules, it does tend to stifle the making-it-up aspect and push the thing into more of a...  Well, a game.

With each successive BotG, the rules got more clearly defined and more complex.  Now it was just a game to be played competitively, to see who could best utilize the standards set in place, rather than a communal story like the first one.


Now, I could also try to push the point that those threads originated back in the old days of the forum, and that the people were just nicer/smarter/geekier/better back then, but that's a subject better left untouched...

I never particularly cared for the various joke/cute races and actions though.  But that's primarily because I have a habit of taking these things a wee bit too seriously.

[mission0]

Ok so the basis here is the the ability to roleplay without restrictions, however after experiencing the roleplay rooms like Strife's Castle it seems that a completely unstructured roleplay isn't possible without it crashing from a lack of common sense.

Then we could say a proper mix of roleplay and guidelines are needed. I believe this where the original "Common Sense" rule came into play. Would it be wrong to assume then that if a game, doesn't have to be botg, was started up with it's main them being "Common Sense" then it can be played without crashing.

For example:

A player asks if they can build a death star

Instead of the gm saying no, he instead asks, "How can your race feasibly do this with their current resources and abilities"

If the player can come up with a answer that is either fun enough or makes enough sense then it gets the clear and boom their is a death star.


Obviously this wouldn't really happen since it would ruin the game for everyone, but it gets the point across.

[Emperor_Jonathan]

The problem isn't necessarily the rules (IMO there are several improvements that can be made).

The main problem is the players lack of time and/or lack of drive to roleplay. Is it possible to introduce some rule to keep BotG going? Perhaps.

Perhaps we should just drop BotG altogether.

[Strife26]

I think that the major problem is that it's nearly impossible to find the perfect spot on the Freedom-Rules sliding skill.

One can try to keep a really free RP going if the GM is active enough, but (especially with me running the Fortress) it's easy for a GM to go to bed and wake up in the morning with an extra five pages to read. I know that I got completely behind pretty quickly.



Although, honestly, I see a LOT less serious RPing around now, which is kinda sad.

[Armok]

This topic is relevant to my interests.

[Akroma]

when botg 3 was ruined by that oh god aweful map, that genuinely sucked, I was just getting into it the story and got something actually interesting going.


then botg 4, which was inargueably the BEST botg, oh how I loved it.


apart from some, cough, black sheep, who...streeeetched the story a bit by simply missing half of the moves eventhough story was involving them. That one was played out very nicely, had interesting characters and stories, that simply wrote themselves as things went on. with each turn, every race on the board, each characters, and everyones agenda became more and more interesting and believable.




those botg's, 3 and 4, where the best ones, and it was THAT which killed botg for me




it entirely destroyed my standards


botg 3 and 4 were not only well written, but long written. sometimes I wrote hours about a single turn, and eagerly looked forwards to other players doing the same.






after those botgs, I tried to emulate that feeling, directly from the getgo, heck, long before the game started. I laid out a good handful of different characters, how they would be used, planned on how the story should progress.


and I simply sled into them way too fast.


while I already wrote out stories for the endgame, people still were in the phase of the first few turns, very short, very boring, nothing happening.


so naturaly, I was disappointed that the botgs that didn't have any time to warm up felt rather cold.








yep, this is what killed botg for me, going in and treating it like the previous botgs endgame.
destroyed my own fun, and I have to admit, by pestering the IRC crowd, also theirs.


sorry guys.






what now impedes any revival of a botg that is any good, is that with university now going on, my time windows have drasticaly declined.






once summer starts and I have a few months on me where I can better regulate my time, I'd be delighted to join in on another botg, and this time properly, slowly getting into it and letting things write themselves.








so yeah, if we start with another botg, starting this summer, lets go on about it properly


that is to say screw rules, free for all


even if that includes Armok (can't believe I just said that)






apart from that, botg did have some good longtime bonuses. through that a very good RP group formed, still using the same IRC channel from back then.


and heck we are having a blast.





that being said, veterans bickering about newbies treading on their lawn:
bah, look at the currently ongoing botg. that map looks terrible. barely readable. why didn#t the one who started it take up the map code used in ALL other botgs. it's easy on the eye, toady uses it for his maps.

[mission0]

Heh I picked up on the hint of being a black sheep there, I apologize for that. I will say in my defense though that I wasn't to familiar with the forums, still pretty inexcusable and I've tried to make up for that with recent games.

I'll be gone this summer so I won't be able to join in on any games there but I look forward to reading it.


And so I guess the main problem is that the core players who used to play botg have grown up and don't have time or their jobs have become more demanding and thus the same problem of time. I guess a good place to start is to help those trying to play botg now learn the ropes and help with everything. Heck when I made I think botg VI I didn't know that the others had used some code to make a map, was just winging it really.

[Akroma]

the black sheep I meant was whomever played the half-giant, the H'run (gah, I can remember that, but forgot who played them)




the story between Navians race and the H'run fighting over disputed land, while the Hitengu, in a middle of a war with another race themselves tried to make peace between the sides sadly never resolved properly due to the Hrun never being there




shame

[Virex]

Having participated in 3 BotG's that were... underwhelming (6, 2 revived and another I don't remember off-hand), I must say that the main problem for me has been keeping track of everything. Each turn has at least 2 to 3 hours worth of roleplay to read a half hour to an hour is needed to figure out how they all fit togheter and then another half hour at least to write my turn up and plan ahead for comming turns. Add to that the time needed to coordinate any actions with other people and a full university schedule and the fact that nearly all BotG's run at at least a turn per 3 days, often faster and it becomes very hard to keep up with the game. That means I don't get to read all posts I like and thus feel quite a bit lost in the world.

Another thing which irked me at least with both 6 and the last one is that interaction with other players came about very slowly if at all. This is difficult for the GM to influence so if there's a new BotG I am able to participate in (Likely during the summer vacation), I'll try not to fall in that hole.

[Strife26]

Interesting. Might it be possible for us to have one right now, as a means to try stuff out before the summer? I'd be willing to GM.

[mission0]

Interesting. Might it be possible for us to have one right now, as a means to try stuff out before the summer? I'd be willing to GM.

Well if you want to do a test run I'm game, I've got 2 - 3 weeks I have till my summer starts up and my schedule slams shut. (just a warning)

My main question is will it be BOTG or just a game inspired from BOTG?

[Strife26]

Well, I guess that we could start discussions. Me and Armok are in the #BOTG channel right now.

[mission0]

Well, I guess that we could start discussions. Me and Armok are in the #BOTG channel right now.

What type of game are you planning on running? The rp loving flexible rules I described, or perhaps an older version of botg like III or IV