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[Djohaal]

A quick mod I did to prove the concept of viable venom traps. You make a GCS-similar venom in large boulders at the kitchen, then you can stockpile it like other stones.

To "trigger" the trap, run magma on the Z level directly below it, it should heat up just enough to boil off the venom.

Profit.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Add this to your reaction_other.txt

[REACTION:MAKE_STONEVENOM]
   [NAME:make Stonevenom]
   [BUILDING:KITCHEN:CUSTOM_R]
   [PRODUCT:100:1:STONE:NONE:INORGANIC:STONEVENOM]
   [SKILL:COOK]


This to your inorganic_other


[INORGANIC:STONEVENOM]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STONE_TEMPLATE]
   [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen Stonevenom]
   [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:Stonevenom]
   [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling Stonevenom]
   [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
   [SPEC_HEAT:8]
   [DISPLAY_COLOR:6:0:0]
       [SYNDROME]
           [SYN_NAME:Stonevenom]
           [SYN_AFFECTED_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
           [SYN_IMMUNE_CREATURE:SPIDER_CAVE:ALL]
           [SYN_INHALED]
      [SYN_CONTACT]
           [CE_PARALYSIS:SEV:100:PROB:100:START:5:PEAK:1000:END:2000]
   [IS_STONE]
   [MATERIAL_VALUE:3]   
   [BOILING_POINT:10099]
   [IGNITE_POINT:10099]

And obviously

   [PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_STONEVENOM]

To your entity default

The point is quite obvious, after some investigation (thanks to peterix's new DFprobe tool) I found out the temperature of tiles beside magma goes up to exactally 10100 Urists, so anything that is solid at 10015 U (standard underground temperature) and boils before 10100 U can be used as a venom-boil trap much similar to those vein-traps in genesis mod and such.

Current issues include:
1: In spite of the venom being inhlaed and the stonevenoms boil profusely when magma runs under them, the contraction of the syndrome is somewhat erratic.
2: The boiling venom can't pass through grates
3: Due to some weirdness on the temperature engine, I couldn't make the venom a liquid that stayed inside barrels, because in such situation it would /never/ boil up, ever, so the venom has to be made in the shape of boulders, and is classfied as one.
4: The stonevenom probably insta-boils if outdoors in scorching map.

[bdog]

Didn't test this on scorching map but temperate should be safe (~10051U)

And its weird thing about those barrels...
I have an idea:
- make barrels from that stone
- put another venom inside those barrels
- put those barrels above magma
- watch as gobs try to get they way thru stockpile full of deadly barrels that are melting/boiling leaving out another deadly poison which would melt and boil too ^^
- ? ? ?
- PROFIT

[Djohaal]

Word is stuff inside barrels does boil, but it takes a while. Gobos would be long gone.
Another solution would be making the stonevenom's sprite map into the barrel, so it *looks* like a stockpile of barrels that explode into venom.

[Shades]

Word is stuff inside barrels does boil, but it takes a while. Gobos would be long gone.
Another solution would be making the stonevenom's sprite map into the barrel, so it *looks* like a stockpile of barrels that explode into venom.

Just make it a stone and have a (custom) stone stockpile either side of the corridor.. less effort

Besides who doesn't have big boulders of poison laying around their home?

[Djohaal]

Word is stuff inside barrels does boil, but it takes a while. Gobos would be long gone.
Another solution would be making the stonevenom's sprite map into the barrel, so it *looks* like a stockpile of barrels that explode into venom.

Just make it a stone and have a (custom) stone stockpile either side of the corridor.. less effort

Besides who doesn't have big boulders of poison laying around their home?

That is exactally how it works right now. I didn't manage to make the stockpiles accept the liquid barrels (frozen stonevenom got listed as stone only). One can always imagine it is some kind of powder that ignites and expands easily when warmed though.

[Jimmy]

Does temperature affect constructed items in the same way as stockpiled items?

Your powder idea made me think: what if you milled it into a powder?

If bags prevent heat similarly to barrels, there's a workaround.

Create a stockpile of the powder containing bags and a dump designation on the other end of the corridor to be trapped. Designate the powders to be dumped and your dwarves will haul them out of the bags. While they're carrying it, un-dump and forbid the powder. The dwarves will drop it onto the ground as a contaminant.

Question now is whether the contaminant will heat to a gas.

[chaturga]

Oh wonderful, dwarven science has come up with chemical warfare.

Will this still work if the stone-venom is launched from a catapult past some magma below?

[Jimmy]

No. This has been tested with lignite. Even if it flies through a sheet of falling magma, stones in flight don't count as objects for temperature.

[Djohaal]

No. This has been tested with lignite. Even if it flies through a sheet of falling magma, stones in flight don't count as objects for temperature.

However it is a good and creative method of delivery of the venom. One could make it so the venom has a very specific temperature and could be stocked inert in nether cap flooring (if its fixed temp tag gives it any mythical capability of cooling stuff around it), and then you could throw it from a catapult (so long the catapult also is in the "cold" area). When the boulder hits the ground, BOOM, venom!

*I think nether cap flooring might work, anyone care to check with DFhack? I'm a bit busy atm. Don't test it with indirect methods such as barrels because as I stated stuff in barrells seems to be a bit wobbly to warm up or cool down.

Does temperature affect constructed items in the same way as stockpiled items?

Your powder idea made me think: what if you milled it into a powder?

If bags prevent heat similarly to barrels, there's a workaround.

Create a stockpile of the powder containing bags and a dump designation on the other end of the corridor to be trapped. Designate the powders to be dumped and your dwarves will haul them out of the bags. While they're carrying it, un-dump and forbid the powder. The dwarves will drop it onto the ground as a contaminant.

Question now is whether the contaminant will heat to a gas.

Probably it will heat up, however it would lead to some chaos (imagine your smith walking into that powder and then to the magma forges), plus too much micromanagement. I prefer it as boulders of volatile stuff as the easiest solution (until maybe we get proper barrel thermic conduction)

[RysanMarquise]

I think the idea was that if it can only remain in a physical state while in bags then it can be deployed as a gaseous weapon if it had a room-temperature evaporation. They would dump out the power and it would start cover a location in deadly vapor. Because it always remains in proper temperate inside the container it wouldn't be hazardous unless deployed.

[Djohaal]

I think the idea was that if it can only remain in a physical state while in bags then it can be deployed as a gaseous weapon if it had a room-temperature evaporation. They would dump out the power and it would start cover a location in deadly vapor. Because it always remains in proper temperate inside the container it wouldn't be hazardous unless deployed.

Booze used to evaporate when in its barrel containers in d40, however temperature seems to be a bit buggier in DF2010. Another problem is that the powder would be deployed by dwarves, that would also get sick. Unless they were made immune to stonevenom.

[bdog]

No. This has been tested with lignite. Even if it flies through a sheet of falling magma, stones in flight don't count as objects for temperature.

However it is a good and creative method of delivery of the venom. One could make it so the venom has a very specific temperature and could be stocked inert in nether cap flooring (if its fixed temp tag gives it any mythical capability of cooling stuff around it), and then you could throw it from a catapult (so long the catapult also is in the "cold" area). When the boulder hits the ground, BOOM, venom!

*I think nether cap flooring might work, anyone care to check with DFhack? I'm a bit busy atm. Don't test it with indirect methods such as barrels because as I stated stuff in barrells seems to be a bit wobbly to warm up or cool down.

Wall made from siltstone wit MAT_FIXED_TEMP:3000 was still at 10015U, same was with floors.

But it would work even without neither cap flooring. All one would need to do is to shot boulders from inside of the fortress (10015U) to outside (on warm biomes where outside temperature is higher than 10015U)

[Grimlocke]

What about buildings made of a material with a fixed temp? You could build paved roads in your entrance corridor made of some material with a high fixed temp, and drop poison stone on it from a bridge or catapult.

[Cheshire Cat]

im not 100% on this, but with catapult shots i think the ammo loses all its material properties as a result of being a projectile. as jimmy said in 40d people went to a huge amount of effort to ignite lignite when it was fired. and when any ammunition strikes something it is often destroyed, which probably means its not going to boil. people used to train siege operators and rid themselves of all their stone in this way. although, stone amunition behaves like arrows and ballista bolts in that if it hits a wall with a 1 z level gap below it, it will survive and drop to the ground. dropping the stones via bridges or hatches would still be the more reliable of delivering your weaponised poisons though. especially if you placed it over your indoors trade depot and locked the doors when the elves are in.

when toady fixes up siege weapons, im sure he will include the option of things like flamable munitions and stuff, and the option for modders to hurl things like custom poisons like the one here. he has remarked before that the catapults and ballistas have not changed at all since the 2d version, which he regarded as unrealistic and in need of fixing. you still cant fire from one z level down to another one.

[Impending Doom]

im not 100% on this, but with catapult shots i think the ammo loses all its material properties as a result of being a projectile. as jimmy said in 40d people went to a huge amount of effort to ignite lignite when it was fired. and when any ammunition strikes something it is often destroyed, which probably means its not going to boil.

True. But if the projectile does manage to fly to the end of the catapault's range, it will stop where it lands and immediately boil. Try building your poisonpaults one z-level above the area you want to gas, and have the operators 'fire at will'. the stone will fly to the end of the catapault's range, stop in midair, fall one Z-level, and immediately boil.

Of course, according to the wiki, a catapault's range is well over 100 tiles, so the area you'll be bombarding must be quite a ways away. The enemy may be well within minimum range by the time you can bring your Dwarven Mustard Gas to bear.