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[opsneakie]

Do you think there's any chance the merge will be compatible with 31.03? I've got a lovely site, although the freezing temperature is somewhat of a downer as far as getting irrigation and a water pit going. I've been working on something I'm fairly certain will work, but my dwarves died of thirst before I could get much done. Should I reclaim and keep working or wait for the next version?

[jokermatt999]

Just did some more testing (fortress mode this time), and it looks like carved stairs unfortunately do not survive cave ins. =/ Damn shame, cause that would've made subs pretty easy. I just checked it by carving one stairway, and channeling all surrounding squares (above and below). It also did not appear to produce the usual stone that a cave in does, so I guess that's handled by the bgame tracking what goes into a construction. Sorry to shoot down your theory though, it seemed like a good one. I wonder if carved fortifications survive, and if they'd even be useful. Probably not though.

[Dante]

This is my project as soon as the merge is released, hopefully today. We'll see how it goes.

Yeah, it won't go very far. Hewn staircases, when dropped, disappear if a roof goes through them; when dropped onto, turn into solid rock.

[Dave Mongoose]

Did some testing for airlock design, and I've got a system that works and would be water safe:

Code: [Select]

1) Create your sub with the hammer method, so you have a central pillar with living space around it:

~~~~~~~~~~~~

 ###########
 #  #####  #
 #  #####  #
 #  #####  #
_#__#####__#_

2) Dig into the base of the pillar, and dig two upward staircases, one square apart:

~~~~~~~~~~~~

 ###########
 #  #####  #
 #  #####  #
 #  #####  #
_#___<_<#__#_

3) Dig both staircase up to the top, but leave the last floor intact.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
     ___
 ####>_>####
 #  #X_X#  #
 #  #X_X#  #
 #  #X_X#  #
_#___<_<#__#_

4) Channel out the staircase on one side of the top floor, then build a **constructed** up-stair in its place:

~~~~~~~~~~~~
     ___
 ####>_<####
 #  #X_X#  #
 #  #X_X#  #
 #  #X_X#  #
_#___<_<#__#_

5) Build a hatch cover over this up-stair (make sure to build the stair first), and another one on the level below. Link both to levers:

~~~~~~~~~~~~
     ___
 ####>_^####
 #  #X_%#  #
 #  #X_X#  #
 #  #X_X#  #
_#___<_<#__#_

^ = hatch and constructed upward stair, % = hatch and carved up/down stair.

6) Wall up the hatched squares, trapping a sacrificial miner (FOR SCIENCE!) on the hatch side of the top level:

~~~~~~~~~~~~
     ___
 ####>+^####
 #  #X+%#  #
 #  #X_X#  #
 #  #X_X#  #
_#___<_<#__#_

+ = constructed wall.

7) AFTER MAKING SURE BOTH HATCHES ARE SHUT, order the miner to channel out the floor above him:


~~~~~~~~~~~~
     __
 ####>+^####
 #  #X+%#  #
 #  #X_X#  #
 #  #X_X#  #
_#___<_<#__#_

8) Open the lower hatch, and order the removal of the constructed up-stair. I have tested this and can confirm that it is possible, even though it's being done through a locked hatch!

~~~~~~~~~~~~
     __
 ####>+c####
 #  #X+%#  #
 #  #X_X#  #
 #  #X_X#  #
_#___<_<#__#_

c = hatch over empty space.

Operation is a case of closing the lower hatch and opening the top one. Items can then be dumped down by your surface dwarves and will land on top of the lower hatch. Closing the top hatch and opening the lower one will release one tile's worth of 7/7 water (which will spread out and evaporate) and allow access to the items!

Some of the stages may seem a little strange or in an odd order, but I found that you can build a hatch on top of a construction, but not the other way around, and that you need a free space next to a tile in order to build a hatch cover (you can't build one from directly above or below).

Edit: At least, this is safe unless there are any amphibious building destroyers! 

[Tallefred]

Just did some more testing (fortress mode this time), and it looks like carved stairs unfortunately do not survive cave ins. =/ Damn shame, cause that would've made subs pretty easy. I just checked it by carving one stairway, and channeling all surrounding squares (above and below). It also did not appear to produce the usual stone that a cave in does, so I guess that's handled by the bgame tracking what goes into a construction. Sorry to shoot down your theory though, it seemed like a good one. I wonder if carved fortifications survive, and if they'd even be useful. Probably not though.

Just tested it, you're correct. Oh well. We'll work something out.

[Dante]

order the miner to channel out the floor above him

Wait, how does this work? He's standing on a hatch and has a natural floor above him, he can't ramp it out because it's already mined, and he can't channel it out because he can't get up there.

The deconstruction through a locked hatch is interesting to keep in mind, though.

[Dave Mongoose]

order the miner to channel out the floor above him

Wait, how does this work? He's standing on a hatch and has a natural floor above him, he can't ramp it out because it's already mined, and he can't channel it out because he can't get up there.

The deconstruction through a locked hatch is interesting to keep in mind, though.

Designate the channeling on the floor above and he'll just remove the floor (or ceiling, from where he's standing) - channeling doesn't need to leave a ramp if there's open space underneath, and he can reach because of the constructed up staircase.

[Keldor]

You know, you could probably save the miner too through prompt usage of the airlock as soon as he channels out the roof.  If you leave the upper hatch unlocked, he should go through it into the airlock, at which point you quickly lock it again and then pull the lever to open the bottom hatch.  At this point, you can attach the upper hatch to it's lever and deconstruct the stairway leaving a fully functional airlock with no cost of dwarven life!

You might have to make the constructed stairway up/down.

[Dante]

Designate the channeling on the floor above and he'll just remove the floor (or ceiling, from where he's standing) - channeling doesn't need to leave a ramp if there's open space underneath, and he can reach because of the constructed up staircase.

I tested this because I was incredulous and oh hey, they do. Please tell me that's a new version feature because many of my older fortresses could have been saved, or at least run much more efficiently, with a roof channeling trick.

You know, you could probably save the miner too through prompt usage of the airlock as soon as he channels out the roof.  If you leave the upper hatch unlocked, he should go through it into the airlock, at which point you quickly lock it again and then pull the lever to open the bottom hatch.  At this point, you can attach the upper hatch to it's lever and deconstruct the stairway leaving a fully functional airlock with no cost of dwarven life!

You might have to make the constructed stairway up/down.

Be wary here. I built the original "hammer" design underwater fortress for fun, and then carved out a door attached to a lever so I could irrigate whenever I wanted.


...water pressure.

[opsneakie]

Minor confusion on the Hammer Method.

I know how the dropping the giant dwarven hammer of science punches through stairs and seals up the space, but did I miss how the space gets down there in general? Are we talking digging down and making the space, and then hammer sealing it? Did I miss something?

[Dante]

Yup. Drop a height-n block for your fortress, then a height-n 3*3 block for the entrance tunnel. Do both at once if you're clever.
Hollow out the underwater fortress to taste, but make sure you get all the bits under the entrance.
Then drop the height-n hammer, which is like a 5*5 exact inverse mold of the entrance, and you're sealed in water/magmatight.

[opsneakie]

But you will be left with a big pipe going up to the surface, yeah? Anyone know how to get rid of that?

[Retro]

I love this thread. I hope someone's put the Hammer Method up on the wiki somewhere.

But you will be left with a big pipe going up to the surface, yeah? Anyone know how to get rid of that?

Can we dig out a large catching pit below the handle and collapse it into the pit somehow, filling the void and replacing the ceiling perfectly?

[opsneakie]

Can we dig out a large catching pit below the handle and collapse it into the pit somehow, filling the void and replacing the ceiling perfectly?

That should actually work, probably. I'll try it out when the next version goes live.

[Dante]

But you will be left with a big pipe going up to the surface, yeah? Anyone know how to get rid of that?

I love this thread. I hope someone's put the Hammer Method up on the wiki somewhere.

But you will be left with a big pipe going up to the surface, yeah? Anyone know how to get rid of that?

Can we dig out a large catching pit below the handle and collapse it into the pit somehow, filling the void and replacing the ceiling perfectly?

Can we dig out a large catching pit below the handle and collapse it into the pit somehow, filling the void and replacing the ceiling perfectly?

That should actually work, probably. I'll try it out when the next version goes live.

The whole point of bdog/Keldor's hammer is that it won't have a big pipe left going to the surface.

It's just a couple of pages back, guys. Not that hard to find.