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[Fluff]

Build a two layer gypsum sub, with gypsum and glass inside. Drop. Add windows  + Replace obsidian with gypsum in inner layer. Remove outer layer somehow (Possibly with the help of sacrificial submarines/dwarves). Fin.

Gypsum as magma proof material is not enough as a drop material - theres no way to get BIG (and across multiple levels) natural wall made from it (w/o modding) and non-natural wall would deconstruct when falling.
[/quote]

A'ight then. Build two layer obsidian sub. With Gypsum and glass inside. Replace inner wall etc.etc.

Although now that I think about it, the glass windows would probably melt. Possibly protect them with some rock somehow.

[Dante]

According to the wiki,

As of version 27.176.38c, magma  does not melt constructed windows, no matter what they are made of, but unconstructed glass windows will melt in magma.

Otherwise, you could use walls constructed from glass, or even glass doors, as long as they're never opened.

[Fluff]

According to the wiki,

As of version 27.176.38c, magma  does not melt constructed windows, no matter what they are made of, but unconstructed glass windows will melt in magma.

Otherwise, you could use walls constructed from glass, or even glass doors, as long as they're never opened.

So if I hide under a pile of glass windows, I'll be melted.

If I put up 4 glass windows around myself, I'll be given an epic view of the magma.

Riiight.

[bdog]

Plus, with good management aboveground you could re-enable entrance when new migrant wave comes (or order them to drop more blocks to make underwater complex)

A simpler way to regenerate the entrance, and therefore to travel up/down whenever you wanted, would be to make an obsidian-block-generator using a 3*3 bridge, and put the lever to it in your underwater complex.

Thats a good idea, fully automated (via levers) reconstruction... but I don't think it would be that simple (you need to remove walls/floors to make cave-in... dropping only water on magma surface is another story)

That diagonal support on the upper two columns will continue to hold those walls, natural or constructed.  Collapsing walls will settle on them.

Actually it should be fine as it is. We've demonstrated that collapsing walls will fall as far as they possibly can, hence why ceilings collapse... which is the problem in the first place. Therefore they will go all the way down.

Actually MrFake is right as I observed in my testing game after reading that post and before Keldor posted a solution.


Regarding airlock: anyone know what happens to retracted/raised bridge when cave-in happens?
If its not deconstructed and cave-in can pass throu then airlock for incoming cargo would be quite simple

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

BB - lowered bridge
Bb - raised bridge (west)
, - floor grate covered with hatch to drain 7/7 magma/water

Step 1 - prepare dock

Code: [Select]

~~~~~~~~~


_______
▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓
__DBB▓▓▓▓
___D ▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
Step 2 - prepare missle

Code: [Select]

    _,___

~~~~~~~~~


_______
▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓
__DBb▓▓▓▓
___D ▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
BAM!

Step 3 - almost ready

Code: [Select]

~~~~~~~~~



▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓
__DBb▓▓▓▓
___D ▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
Step 4 - ready for incoming transports

Code: [Select]

~~~~~~~~~



▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓
__DBB▓▓▓▓
___D,▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓

[Oglokoog]

I think an airlock for dropping stuff from above would be quite simple to design, but I can't imagine how to actually build it.

Code: [Select]

WW%WW
WW%WW
%%~%%
WW%WW
WW%WW

All pumps are pumping outward and are powered by god knows what. W is wall.

[Dante]

That diagonal support on the upper two columns will continue to hold those walls, natural or constructed.  Collapsing walls will settle on them.

Actually it should be fine as it is. We've demonstrated that collapsing walls will fall as far as they possibly can, hence why ceilings collapse... which is the problem in the first place. Therefore they will go all the way down.

Actually MrFake is right as I observed in my testing game after reading that post and before Keldor posted a solution.

Oh, I see, because the cave-in natural walls of the hammer don't cause a cave-in in the existing walls because they still read as connected, even though if those existing walls weren't there, it'd be the ceiling collapse problem that we've been struggling with. My bad.

Re: bridge-based airlock, I'm fairly sure it would destroy it, because e.g. magma will destroy a retracted bridge, or a raised bridge if it lands on the raised part. (But not if it's just adjacent to the raised part).

Also, I don't think it's a problem - you don't you need to remove walls/floors to make a cave-in. You should be able to just drop water onto the magma, like you say, or vice versa. Do that several times in succession and you get a pillar of obsidian.

[bdog]

I think an airlock for dropping stuff from above would be quite simple to design, but I can't imagine how to actually build it.

Code: [Select]

WW%WW
WW%WW
%%~%%
WW%WW
WW%WW

All pumps are pumping outward and are powered by god knows what. W is wall.

Yeah, thats a top view of what I had on my mind before MrFake proved that my knowledge about cave-in is lacking a bit... and yeah I don't know what should be powering them either ^^"
Trick with bridge would be simpler to build (ofc if it would be working)

That diagonal support on the upper two columns will continue to hold those walls, natural or constructed.  Collapsing walls will settle on them.

Actually it should be fine as it is. We've demonstrated that collapsing walls will fall as far as they possibly can, hence why ceilings collapse... which is the problem in the first place. Therefore they will go all the way down.

Actually MrFake is right as I observed in my testing game after reading that post and before Keldor posted a solution.

Re: bridge-based airlock, I'm fairly sure it would destroy it, because e.g. magma will destroy a retracted bridge, or a raised bridge if it lands on the raised part. (But not if it's just adjacent to the raised part).

Also, I don't think it's a problem - you don't you need to remove walls/floors to make a cave-in. You should be able to just drop water onto the magma, like you say, or vice versa. Do that several times in succession and you get a pillar of obsidian.

Awww, guess I'll need to test it to be sure.

Problem with releasing water on magma is in fluids physics in DF. It is so random that with 3x3 tiles with 7/7 water you can end with 4x4 obsidian spiral tower (and some random cave-ins near it)

[Dante]

Well, with 7-depth water, maybe. But it's easy enough to build a mechanical system which drip feeds water into a holding chamber up to level 3, using a pressure plate, and drops that into a main 3*3 room three times. Giving you 1 water in each square. If the floor of the room is actually a 3*3 bridge, and you drop from more than one z above the magma, it'll turn into obsidian in exactly the configuration you want.

[Keldor]

It's probably easiest to just make a 3x3 mold and fill that with lava and water to make a 3x3 section, then drop the whole thing into the water.  The constructed walls of the mold would fall apart, leaving you with just the 3x3 square of obsidian.  Repeat until you reach the surface.

[BigD145]

A 3x3 square will end up having a creamy magma center. Mmmmm, creamy magma.

[Dante]

It's probably easiest to just make a 3x3 mold and fill that with lava and water to make a 3x3 section, then drop the whole thing into the water.  The constructed walls of the mold would fall apart, leaving you with just the 3x3 square of obsidian.  Repeat until you reach the surface.

No but if you use a bridge, it's infinitely repeatable. You can hook it up to a lever and control it from your underwater fortress, making a fresh path whenever you want. No construction.

...

I was just reading the bathysphere thread, and one way that hasn't been mentioned here is to drop a huge block of natural stone into the water, and then drop burning lignite bins in a pattern around its perimeter, and then drop all your dwarves on top of the stone block, either with a bridge or with the new construct-downward-stair option. With timing and maybe a little good luck, you should be able to drain the ocean around the solid block and tunnel in, set up your fortress, and be all sealed up by the time the lignite gives out.
This won't work for magma, of course.

[jokermatt999]

I've done some testing in the arena, and I've reliably been able to get a gap of open space 1 z level up from the bottom of the sub. I made a "bowl" like so:

Code: [Select]

Z=top
OOOOO
OWWWO
OWWWO
OWWWO
OOOOO
Z=-1
OOOOO
OWWWO
OWWWO
OWWWO
OOOOO
Z=-2
OOOOO
OOOOO
OOOOO
OOOOO
OOOOO

However, no matter where I put the dwarf, he went Han Solo, since creatures don't fall the same as constructions.

Depending on the rate that cages fall (which I can't test in the arena) and if you can somehow get a creature released from one after it falls, this may work.

[Tallefred]

Well, I didn't read the whole thread, but I searched and nothing came up. Have you guys tried using stairs as internal support for the submersible? Should keep the ceiling from falling and creatures and objects would be able to occupy the same space.

[jokermatt999]

Well, all constructions get auto-deconstructed, so that's out. I'm not 100% sure about staircases carved out of natural rock though.

Also, I did more arena testing. It seems like the order of falling is rock, then liquid, then dwarves. Since it's been established that caveins move their liquid up one level, I can't just leave the bottom layer of the "bowl" empty. If I fill it with water, the dwarf gets trapped in cooling lava as it falls. Btw, all this testing is with 4 layers of lava and 4 open levels above, because the arena unfortunately seems to have a set # of z levels even when you edit arena.txt. Thus, I can't really test some of the more complicated methods that suggest sandwhiching rock and water. That may be the key if this is possible.

Also, what is our definition of success here? A completely unattached bubble of rock around one or more creatures surviving after landing at the bottom of an arbitrary level of lava? "Survival" could use better defining, I guess. I don't think indefinite is necessary, but being able to survive to landing conditions until hunger/thirst kick in seems fair. This means no major (hopefully none at all) injuries, and no magma or water in the bubble with them.

[Tallefred]

Well, all constructions get auto-deconstructed, so that's out. I'm not 100% sure about staircases carved out of natural rock though.

Also, I did more arena testing. It seems like the order of falling is rock, then liquid, then dwarves. Since it's been established that caveins move their liquid up one level, I can't just leave the bottom layer of the "bowl" empty. If I fill it with water, the dwarf gets trapped in cooling lava as it falls. Btw, all this testing is with 4 layers of lava and 4 open levels above, because the arena unfortunately seems to have a set # of z levels even when you edit arena.txt. Thus, I can't really test some of the more complicated methods that suggest sandwhiching rock and water. That may be the key if this is possible.

Also, what is our definition of success here? A completely unattached bubble of rock around one or more creatures surviving after landing at the bottom of an arbitrary level of lava? "Survival" could use better defining, I guess. I don't think indefinite is necessary, but being able to survive to landing conditions until hunger/thirst kick in seems fair. This means no major (hopefully none at all) injuries, and no magma or water in the bubble with them.

I'm talking about carved staircases. Make a massive block of obsidian, carve the inside out, fill it with everything you need, a dwarf and a pickaxe. When you get to the bottom, knock out all the staircases and set up shop.

This is my project as soon as the merge is released, hopefully today. We'll see how it goes.