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Author Topic: [FORUM] Tag edit as minor  (Read 958 times)

Pilsu

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[FORUM] Tag edit as minor
« on: May 02, 2010, 09:35:17 am »

Right now, I can't even correct spelling without the edit string placing itself in my post. I really should be able to edit the contents of a post without the string appearing if I so wish. It would make the notification more meaningful when it's there.

[Also, let us delete our own posts.]
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Deathworks

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Re: [FORUM] Tag edit as minor
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2010, 09:38:05 am »

Oh man, Pilsu is such a stud. I wish I had the [FEMALE] tag so I could have his babies.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 11:23:01 am by Deathworks »
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Felblood

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Re: [FORUM] Tag edit as minor
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2010, 10:44:02 am »

Edit timestamps are very important for maintaining accountability.

If you're really concerned over what people think, add a footnote explaining why the edit was made.

If this is an aesthetics issue, I'm afraid it's a necessary sacrifice. Internet forums have a way of bringing out the egotistical back-biter in all of us, and it's important to make it clear that deceit doesn't fly.
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The path through the wilderness is rarely direct. Reaching the destination is useless,
if you don't learn the lessons of the dessert.
--but you do have to keep walking.

Pilsu

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Re: [FORUM] Tag edit as minor
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2010, 11:18:12 am »

Pilsu is a fucking asshole. Get banned, shitnugget

:(

I concur. This is the best idea ever.

<3

Really, I can already edit an old post to contain nothing but an ASCII bunny, how is that any less context-removing than outright deletion?


I don't really see edits feeding much in the way of drama. The post saying it's been edited hardly proves that he really called you a cockweasel instead of the honeymuffin it says now. I think calling attention to meaningful edits should be more of a priority than making already rule-breaching bickering a bit less efficient.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 11:43:20 am by Pilsu »
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Deathworks

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Re: [FORUM] Tag edit as minor
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2010, 11:22:31 am »

Hi!

You are forgetting some important aspects:
If you can secretly edit your posts, even though others have responded to them, you can make their posts look inappropriate by removing things they criticized quite correctly. The edit marker protects against this, as anyone can see that it is not the same post as when the reply was posted.

The same holds true for deleting your posts - by deleting it, you remove the context for any replies.

Deathworks

Hi!

I hope this show of what you are asking for gives you a hint why my real opinion is what I preserved in this quote.
Not everyone is very even-tempered, and continued lying and deceiving can cause quite a bit of mayhem.
With each alteration clearly marked, even if it can't be retrieved, people will know that the modified post no longer tells the entire story.

To illustrate:
A posts comment 1 calling B something really nasty.
B and C strongly tell A he shouldn't post personal attacks.
A silently edits comment 1 to make it harmless and the posts a reply to B and C denouncing them for being drama queens.
And since edits can not be recovered, A can even call the moderators to act against B and C just for the fun of it.

Now, if comment 1 was clearly marked to have been altered after B and C posted their protest, any claim of A about the content of comment 1 at the time B and C becomes doubtful.

Deathworks
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 11:30:26 am by Deathworks »
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Pilsu

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Re: [FORUM] Tag edit as minor
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2010, 11:27:40 am »

Dogs are better than cats.


Wait, you edited your post to contain all that wordy jibberjabber! Glad I have the true post preserved here.

I figure mods can already see an edit history or something. Otherwise I could call you whatever I want right now and ninjaedit it once you've thrown a hissy fit and all the mods would have to go on is my post saying it's been edited. You can't punish someone for that, otherwise I could say that your post originally called me a doodieface and they'd have to buy it just because you had made an edit to fix a typo.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 11:37:27 am by Pilsu »
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Deathworks

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Re: [FORUM] Tag edit as minor
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2010, 11:34:51 am »

Hi!

Not bad.

But still, the posts marked as modified puts them on a lower standing than any posts that were written and last modified between their original posting date and their last modified date.

Deathworks
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Deathworks

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Re: [FORUM] Tag edit as minor
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2010, 11:37:25 am »

Hi!

And you also realize, that as long as Felblood does not edit his post in any manner, it is clear due to the lack of the edit marker that your quote is faked.

Deathworks
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Pilsu

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Re: [FORUM] Tag edit as minor
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2010, 11:41:10 am »


↑ o lawd.

Anyway, if a post is edited, I can claim it said whatever I want. Only an inability to edit posts at all could provide the narrative coherence you speak of but that'd just be irritating. *shakes fist at Gawker*
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Deathworks

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Re: [FORUM] Tag edit as minor
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2010, 11:47:06 am »

Hi!

Dogs are better than cats.


Wait, you edited your post to contain all that wordy jibberjabber! Glad I have the true post preserved here.

I figure mods can already see an edit history or something. Otherwise I could call you whatever I want right now and ninjaedit it once you've thrown a hissy fit and all the mods would have to go on is my post saying it's been edited. You can't punish someone for that, otherwise I could say that your post originally called me a doodieface and they'd have to buy it just because you had made an edit to fix a typo.

As far as I know, they don't have logs of that kind.

Let's consider this scenario from the perspective of a moderator:
They are called about someone calling people names, but when they visit the thread in question, there are no inappropriate words to be found.

Current system:
Edit marker exists: The situation is clearly marked that it is not the original situation, so it is impossible to tell who is lying => no action, but mod may be wary of the people involved as one of them was obviously causing trouble.
Edit marker does not exist: The person calling the moderator has lied, prompting punishment or warning in that direction.

System without edit markers:
??? Who is telling the truth, and who is lying?

In addition, this is not only limited to the moderators. Other members noticing the thread may also be confused about the situation, causing inappropriate assumptions.

Deathworks
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Felblood

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Re: [FORUM] Tag edit as minor
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2010, 11:47:50 am »

Oh man, Pilsu is such a stud. I wish I had the [FEMALE] tag so I could have his babies.

I concur. This is the best idea ever.

<3

Really, I can already edit an old post to contain nothing but an ASCII bunny, how is that any less context-removing than outright deletion?


I don't really see edits feeding much in the way of drama. The post saying it's been edited hardly proves that he really called you a cockweasel instead of the honeymuffin it says now. I think calling attention to meaningful edits should be more of a priority than making already rule-breaching bickering a bit less efficient.

You can remove the contents of your post, but you can't destroy the evidence that you actually made a post, lending credence to those who quoted you. If you want to go about destroying the evidence that you're not a jerk you can go right ahead; that's the price of editing a post, and you should always go into it being aware of what you're doing. However, you don't have as much leeway when it comes to destroying other people's defenses.

It isn't a perfect system, it can't be, and it doesn't need to be.

This is not, however, a good reason to make the system less secure. It will always be imperfect, but it's actually pretty good, and an intelligent person can usually deduce which parties have engaged in weaselery in short time (usually everyone involved if it comes to checking edit timestamps, in my moderating experience).

What possible benefit does this suggestion have that can outweigh the reduced load on our overworked forum staff? They don't have time to play Sherlock Holmes as it is, and there's no reason to make things harder on them.

Redunant points ommitted.

I figure mods can already see an edit history or something. Otherwise I could call you whatever I want right now and ninjaedit it once you've thrown a hissy fit and all the mods would have to go on is my post saying it's been edited. You can't punish someone for that, otherwise I could say that your post originally called me a doodieface and they'd have to buy it just because you had made an edit to fix a typo.

It's quite dangerous to make assumptions about what features this BB software supports (most places the mods use the same timestamps as everyone else, but not all). There's a lot of variance, and it isn't usually a good idea to tell potential trolls exactly what tools you have at your disposal.
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The path through the wilderness is rarely direct. Reaching the destination is useless,
if you don't learn the lessons of the dessert.
--but you do have to keep walking.

Diablous

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Re: [FORUM] Tag edit as minor
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2010, 11:47:50 am »

Meh, I don't really get what's so annoying about the edit string.
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Quote from: Solifuge
A catgirl, whom oft it would please
To dine on a pizza, with cheese,
Thought it was quite fine
To be partly feline,
Excepting the hairballs and fleas.

Felblood

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Re: [FORUM] Tag edit as minor
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2010, 11:48:58 am »

Meh, I don't really get what's so annoying about the edit string.

Exactly. What is the point of this suggestion, besides to troll people in your own OP?

What do we get out of this, that justifies the cost in transparency.
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The path through the wilderness is rarely direct. Reaching the destination is useless,
if you don't learn the lessons of the dessert.
--but you do have to keep walking.

Deathworks

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Re: [FORUM] Tag edit as minor
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2010, 11:53:03 am »

Hi!

Meh, I don't really get what's so annoying about the edit string.

Exactly. What is the point of this suggestion, besides to troll people in your own OP?

What do we get out of this, that justifies the cost in transparency.

Indeed, that is the other question.

Actually, the edit string is not inserted when you make a flash edit before anyone else has seen the post. That happened to me once or twice when I forgot to disable smilies, and quickly turned them off via an edit.

Deathworks
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Diablous

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Re: [FORUM] Tag edit as minor
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2010, 11:54:39 am »

Hi!

Meh, I don't really get what's so annoying about the edit string.

Exactly. What is the point of this suggestion, besides to troll people in your own OP?

What do we get out of this, that justifies the cost in transparency.

Indeed, that is the other question.

Actually, the edit string is not inserted when you make a flash edit before anyone else has seen the post. That happened to me once or twice when I forgot to disable smilies, and quickly turned them off via an edit.

Deathworks

I have encountered that if memory serves.
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Quote from: Solifuge
A catgirl, whom oft it would please
To dine on a pizza, with cheese,
Thought it was quite fine
To be partly feline,
Excepting the hairballs and fleas.

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