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Yorkists

3 (27.3%)

Lancastrians

8 (72.7%)

Total Members Voted: 11

[Char13magne]

So, hi guys, another random discussion forum topic about history from me (this time I'll keep double-posting to a bare minimum ), so in this case, my question is, do you guys think the encumbent Yorkists, or the usurping Lancastrians were more in the right? Please explain your opinions as I am trying to set up a premise for constructive debate on the topic, and it is a rather important one to the modern residents of England, as the current Royal family is really that of a line with royal blood only via a second bastard son, and really their only claim to power is as a family of usurpers. So, were their violent advances upon the throne of England justified, or was Henry just a nasty spider of a man?

                 Cheers!

[baruk]

 I just think of them as a couple of warring tribes of bloodthirsty northerners. They aren't so diametrically opposed and distinguishable as, say, the Roundheads and Cavaliers.

[Char13magne]

I just think of them as a couple of warring tribes of bloodthirsty northerners. They aren't so diametrically opposed and distinguishable as, say, the Roundheads and Cavaliers.

I see what you're saying, as they had no great ideallic differences, as opposed to the warring factions of the English Civil War. Still, they were very different in their motives, at least.

[ChairmanPoo]

Why isn't Tudor an option?

[Jackrabbit]

My question is why didn't the Lancastrians utterly destroy the other side nearly immediately? I mean, they had Ecky Thump.

[SiN.Daeus]

I agree with baruk. In my opinion, it was just a bunch of dudes fighting to control the crown. It wasn't really clash of ideaolgies or anything as dramatic as that. I would say that the Lancastrians are better, simply because they retook the throne.

Why isn't Tudor an option?

As far as I know, the War of the Roses ended with Edward IV's crowning. And Henry Tudor was Lancastrian. SO in essence, voting for Lancastrian means voting for Tudor.

[ChairmanPoo]

wait, does that mean that the Lannisters will eventually win in the War of the Roses inspired ASOIF? 

[Vester]

With how the story's gone so far?

Yes. The Baratheons are gone, the Starks are gone, and the Martells are basically hinging everything on a marriage to the last Targaryen.

On the other hand, most of the main line Lannisters are either out of the running or soon to be, so...

[Pathos]

With how the story's gone so far?

Yes. The Baratheons are gone, the Starks are gone, and the Martells are basically hinging everything on a marriage to the last Targaryen.

On the other hand, most of the main line Lannisters are either out of the running or soon to be, so...

To be honest, Daenerys is really gonna fuck stuff up with her dragons, especially since

Spoiler: New Book Warning, Preview Chapter (click to show/hide)

her black one is eating kids.

[Vester]

With how the story's gone so far?

Yes. The Baratheons are gone, the Starks are gone, and the Martells are basically hinging everything on a marriage to the last Targaryen.

On the other hand, most of the main line Lannisters are either out of the running or soon to be, so...

To be honest, Daenerys is really gonna fuck stuff up with her dragons, especially since

Spoiler: New Book Warning, Preview Chapter (click to show/hide)

her black one is eating kids.

Spoiler: Yeah, it's at the end of AFFC (click to show/hide)

Drogon is an adorable child-eating hellbeast. And I will murder and roast anyone who says otherwise.

[ChairmanPoo]

To be honest, Daenerys is really gonna fuck stuff up with her dragons, especially since

Spoiler: New Book Warning, Preview Chapter (click to show/hide)

her black one is eating kids.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

OBJECTION! Circumstantial evidence! Why should we believe a dirty peasant?

As for the Lannisters winning, remember that

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 Gold shall be their crowns and gold  their shrouds. This kinds of dampens their succession line.
Barring Lannister or Tyrion getting someone pregnant. Now there's a thought: Tyrion will marry Daenerys!

[Vester]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 Gold shall be their crowns and gold  their shrouds. This kinds of dampens their succession line.
Barring Lannister or Tyrion getting someone pregnant. Now there's a thought: Tyrion will marry Daenerys!

I hope not. He has bad luck with women, you just know it won't end well for either of them.

[Char13magne]

Why isn't Tudor an option?

Oh, that's quite simple. The Tudors are really the victory of the Lancastrians, being a continuation of the dynasty set up by the rise of the Lancastrians to power.

Oh, and guys, since I see a lot of people saying that, "since it really wasn't a fight between ideologies and instead two groups vying for power, it isn't important" kind of thing. But if you look through history, the Yorkists were far more capable as rulers than any lancastrian up until the Tudors! So, when saying what is better for England, I at least would say Yorkists all the way! (Plus, Henry VI was really rather feeble minded and his queen a hated foreigner, and that during the war his wife's conduct was despicable, including her bringing in of Scottish and French troops, who proceded to sack and pillage English towns as if they were fighting the hundred years war! Meanwhile Yorkist troops were far better at keeping discipline after their victories so as not to sack and pillage their own country! The town of London, with a tradition of concern for the tradition of its town people generally supported the Yorkists, especially Richard duke of York and his son Edward IV.) 

[sonerohi]

My whole knowledge of the War of the Roses comes from the Warrior Heir book series. But, within the series, Lancaster ( a dood, not the side) was a badass and the Red Roses were so much cooler. 

[ChairmanPoo]

My knowledge from the war of the Roses comes from an english history course I accidentally signed in  as a free choice subject two years ago