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[apache1990]

quote:Originally posted by Capntastic:
<STRONG>

Section 5 of the EULA that you agree to when you use Steam:

"...You acknowledge and agree that either Valve or any online multiplayer host may refuse to allow you to participate in certain online multiplayer games if you use Cheats in connection with Steam or the Steam Software..."
</STRONG>

DF memory hacking utilities have nothing to do with Steam or its software, thus they violated the EULA by banning you.

[ December 12, 2007: Message edited by: apache1990 ]

[Capntastic]

quote:Originally posted by Torak:
[QB
The fact of the matter is that they were monitoring a completely unrelated (and private) part of his computer, which is illegal for anything outside of a court-ordered warrant. [/QB]

Unless you give consent, as per the EULA.

I'm not saying Steam is right in this particular case; they made a small mistake.   But he was running suspicious software designed for cheating.  Don't be obtuse.

[ December 13, 2007: Message edited by: Capntastic ]

[apache1990]

Still matters.  They should only flag it if it starts changing values in Steam or their games, not DF.

[Capntastic]

I'd rather have anti-Cheating tech that gives the occasional false positive [the kind with cheating programs running, albeit for a different game] rather than none at all.

BOOM HEADSHOT.

[Ltheb]

I am a bit more interested in the legality of this kind of thing as a whole. Don't get me wrong; Valve has great games, and an Anti-Cheat service makes sure the quality of the games while played remains high.

What interests me is the kinds of things a company can have their software do to/with your computer without informing you. Valve isn't necessarily some sort of criminal organization simply by having a stealth system memory scan; but the gray area it falls into doesn't seem well defined. Does this mean a company could scan your Hard Disk for programs they don't like (Maybe a competitor's programs as an example) and 'ban' you based on that? Some of this technology is so 'new' (relatively) that there may not be any laws at all governing things like this yet or perhaps no one thinks to look for these things and enforce the laws.

Whatever the case may be, Valve does not take kindly to memory editing programs, so care had best be taken if you use one.

[Capntastic]

I don't think it's so 'stealth' considering that it's in the EULA which you are supposed to read before agreeing to.

[apache1990]

quote:Originally posted by Capntastic:
<STRONG>I'd rather have anti-Cheating tech that gives the occasional false positive [the kind with cheating programs running, albeit for a different game] rather than none at all.

BOOM HEADSHOT.</STRONG>

What headshot?  That's only an opinion.

[Capntastic]

quote:Originally posted by apache1990:
<STRONG>

What headshot?  That's only an opinion.</STRONG>

Lighten up, it was a joke.  

The bottom line I'm trying to make is that the opening post here says "Hey, be careful- Valve thinks DF memory hack tools are cheats!" and near everyone is replying with cries of war against a company that is trying to provide a quality service and made a tiny slip up that will probably rectified.

[apache1990]

Well, you know.  *NUKE*

Anyway, what's this about them saying "We do not lift bans. VAC does not make mistakes?"

[Torak]

quote:Originally posted by Capntastic:
<STRONG>a tiny slip up that will probably rectified.</STRONG>

Valve doesnt undo bans on cheating.

[Capntastic]

quote:Originally posted by Erasmus Darwin:
<STRONG>

According to the Wikipedia page for VAC ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Anti-Cheat ), they've lifted bans in the past that were caused by false positives.</STRONG>

Okay.   It's a good thing he wasn't cheating then.

[ December 13, 2007: Message edited by: Capntastic ]

[Zurai]

It's amusing how many people think they have the slightest clue what is or isn't legal regarding EULAs and what a software developer is and isn't allowed to do to protect their software.

[Capntastic]

quote:Originally posted by Zurai:
<STRONG>It's amusing how many people think they have the slightest clue what is or isn't legal regarding EULAs and what a software developer is and isn't allowed to do to protect their software.</STRONG>

How many people?

[Lord_Daeloth]

Alright, I'm assuming that they only scan your memory, not your hard-drive, which is what you agreed to.  It detected something that it recognized as a memory hacking tool (You didn't have cheat-o-matic running did you?) and banned you.  I mean, as long as you can send them a link to the programs you feel may have produced the false positive, I see no reason for them to not lift the ban.  Just make sure you are polite and give them all the information you can.  If you were running some other memory editing utility, though, like o-matic... You're probably screwed.

[briktal]

quote:Originally posted by Lord_Daeloth:
<STRONG>Alright, I'm assuming that they only scan your memory, not your hard-drive, which is what you agreed to.  It detected something that it recognized as a memory hacking tool (You didn't have cheat-o-matic running did you?) and banned you.  I mean, as long as you can send them a link to the programs you feel may have produced the false positive, I see no reason for them to not lift the ban.  Just make sure you are polite and give them all the information you can.  If you were running some other memory editing utility, though, like o-matic... You're probably screwed.</STRONG>

Yeah, VAC scans your memory when you connect to a VAC secured server.  Additionally, the theory is that VAC2 checks (somehow) for specific cheat programs running.