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Author Topic: Armor Level  (Read 3394 times)

Tsuko

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Armor Level
« on: April 29, 2010, 07:24:54 pm »

I was looking at armor levels in the dwarf fortress wiki and they say socks have a considerable armor bonus.. but socks also show they have NO armor level
so how can they make you harder to kill if they have no armor level? it doesn't even show in raws any difference but some strange stuff like

[COVERAGE:100]
[LAYER_SIZE:10]
[LAYER_PERMIT:15]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:1]

all stuff got coverage and material size not sure how it affects dwarves in combat tho.
and i'm a bit confused on how size vs permit works.

And can they wear Under, over, and armor at the same time on the same body part?
like.. socks, shoes, and low boots?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 07:29:21 pm by Tsuko »
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Hyperturtle

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Re: Armor Level
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2010, 07:26:46 pm »

Dwarf feet stink.  This effect is magnified by socks that they never change.  They provide no additional protection unto themselves, rather, they project an aura of sorts.
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Tsuko

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Re: Armor Level
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2010, 07:29:43 pm »

I LOL if that is the case :P
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Dave Mongoose

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Re: Armor Level
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2010, 07:53:45 pm »

Each item of clothing on a certain body part adds its 'layer size' to the total. Once this total goes above the 'layer permit', nothing more can be worn there.

So looking at what you've quoted from the raws, a dwarf could wear two pairs of socks at the same time (10 < 15, so we can still add more... but 10+10 > 15, so we have to stop at two).

This probably limits them to socks + shoes OR socks + low boots, since shoes and boots should be smaller than socks.

I think coverage is how much of that body part is covered by the item, so socks cover 100% of a dwarf's foot.

If there's no mention of armor then the info on the wiki may be wrong. I've seen some combat reports where clothing deflected attacks, but I can't remember socks being one of them.
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GRead

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Re: Armor Level
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2010, 08:22:30 pm »

Armor level has little to no bearing on the defense quality of an item, only what kind of armor the dwarfs consider it to be. 1 is leather, 2 is chain, and 3 is plate.
Given the new military screen the tags may be vestigial, though I would guess they play a role in determining the equipment of invaders and neutral military units.

The actual effectiveness of armor is now determined almost entirely by the materials it is made out of, though I imagine coverage, layer size and some of the misc. tags play a role as well.

I'm not sure about socks in .31, I am curious if whoever wrote that in the article actually tested it, or just assumed that since that was the way it was in 40d, that's how it is in .31. I am suspecting the latter.
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Acanthus117

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Re: Armor Level
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2010, 08:25:21 pm »

This information might be useful to modders... I was always thinking of making random pieces of clothing, and wondered how to make sure that they can still wear a tunic with that coat, things like that.
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Tsuko

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Re: Armor Level
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2010, 10:52:29 pm »

ooh that is logical the 1 and 2 and the 3 refers to armor type!! xD
so cloth is 0 very simple  :)

So a cape with coverage 50% only gives half it's strength to defend against attacks against back / torso area.

So in the end its material type and size?  ok i'll see what i can do with that.
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PencilinHand

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Re: Armor Level
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2010, 12:59:59 am »

Armor level has little to no bearing on the defense quality of an item, only what kind of armor the dwarfs consider it to be. 1 is leather, 2 is chain, and 3 is plate.
Given the new military screen the tags may be vestigial, though I would guess they play a role in determining the equipment of invaders and neutral military units.

The actual effectiveness of armor is now determined almost entirely by the materials it is made out of, though I imagine coverage, layer size and some of the misc. tags play a role as well.

I'm not sure about socks in .31, I am curious if whoever wrote that in the article actually tested it, or just assumed that since that was the way it was in 40d, that's how it is in .31. I am suspecting the latter.

Sorry, my fault, it is an incomplete edit(it is fixed now). I meant to pull that out when I was rewriting the armor table but forgot.

ooh that is logical the 1 and 2 and the 3 refers to armor type!! xD
so cloth is 0 very simple  :)

So a cape with coverage 50% only gives half it's strength to defend against attacks against back / torso area.

So in the end its material type and size?  ok i'll see what i can do with that.

In 40d, coverage was used in determining the exposure to temperature effects and such.  I don't think anyone has checked on if coverage has an added effect now or not.

Each item of clothing on a certain body part adds its 'layer size' to the total. Once this total goes above the 'layer permit', nothing more can be worn there.

So looking at what you've quoted from the raws, a dwarf could wear two pairs of socks at the same time (10 < 15, so we can still add more... but 10+10 > 15, so we have to stop at two).

This probably limits them to socks + shoes OR socks + low boots, since shoes and boots should be smaller than socks.

I think coverage is how much of that body part is covered by the item, so socks cover 100% of a dwarf's foot.

If there's no mention of armor then the info on the wiki may be wrong. I've seen some combat reports where clothing deflected attacks, but I can't remember socks being one of them.
[LAYER:COVER] items are the only items playing by the old rules I am afraid.  I am still working on how to present the new rules but I know the logic works something like this.

If the item to be add is a [LAYER:COVER] item, add the total item size on the body part, if this sum is less than or equal to the item's permit value then continue.
If a [LAYER:ARMOR] item is present or to be added and if the sum of the non [LAYER:COVER] items would be less than the sum of the [LAYER:ARMOR] size+permit values then continue.
If one or more items of the same non-[LAYER:COVER] layer as the one being added are present and if the sum of their size values is less than the smallest permit value then continue.
If the sum of the size values for all items on the body part are less than or equal to the permit value of the item about to be added then continue.
The item is allowed if all rules either evaluate to true or are not applicable.

EX: A helm(30 size,20 permit) means you can put on a mask(20,10) or two caps(10,20), but only two head veils(10,100).  Any of these configurations can fit 6 additional hoods if desired.

EX: Wearing a cap(10,20) means you can only put one face veil(10,100), because they are both [LAYER:UNDER].  But you can have up to a combined total of 9 head veils and hoods.

NOTE: This is also in compliance with the [SHAPED] tag that prevents more than one of an item at a time with the shaped tag on a given body part.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 01:03:18 am by PencilinHand »
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Tsuko

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Re: Armor Level
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2010, 08:33:12 am »

Oh that helps greatly, so is this possible?:
                     
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


and is it possible to wear Gloves, Mittens, AND Gauntlets on each hand?
I wanted to do a table but it didn't really work so this will have to do :(
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 08:46:43 am by Tsuko »
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PencilinHand

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Re: Armor Level
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2010, 09:37:39 am »

Oh that helps greatly, so is this possible?:
                     
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


and is it possible to wear Gloves, Mittens, AND Gauntlets on each hand?
I wanted to do a table but it didn't really work so this will have to do :(

Your spoiler image would work, and no, you can't wear Gloves, Mittens, and Gauntlets on both hands at the same time(unless you mod them) but any two of the three would work.
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Tsuko

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Re: Armor Level
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2010, 10:06:00 am »

Cool, then i'll make that my uniform, oh anyone know how to drop all my military dwarves clothes and armor? so i can start from scratch preferly without dumping if possible?
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PencilinHand

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Re: Armor Level
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2010, 10:51:36 am »

Cool, then i'll make that my uniform, oh anyone know how to drop all my military dwarves clothes and armor? so i can start from scratch preferly without dumping if possible?

You could 'd'esignate->'b'->'f'orbid their stuff.  But I think if you just order them to wear their new uniforms they will drop everything that doesn't comply.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 10:55:10 am by PencilinHand »
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GRead

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Re: Armor Level
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2010, 11:13:47 am »

Cool, then i'll make that my uniform, oh anyone know how to drop all my military dwarves clothes and armor? so i can start from scratch preferly without dumping if possible?

You could 'd'esignate->'b'->'f'orbid their stuff.  But I think if you just order them to wear their new uniforms they will drop everything that doesn't comply.

They're supposed to anyway. Unfortunately it's a bit buggy right now so, you know, your mileage may vary. It could work perfectly, or you could wind up with dwarfs holding 5 axes and 2 shields while refusing to swap out their bronze chain for steel
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TheMirth

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Re: Armor Level
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2010, 11:16:29 am »

I could not get my dwarf to wear both chainmail and a breastplate with his tunic, he just kept swapping htem.

having armor replace clothes fixed the issue for me.
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PencilinHand

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Re: Armor Level
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2010, 12:33:29 pm »

I could not get my dwarf to wear both chainmail and a breastplate with his tunic, he just kept swapping htem.

having armor replace clothes fixed the issue for me.

That could be a bug or fortress mode specific rules.  Difficult to tell.
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