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Author Topic: Doors vs Floodgates  (Read 1547 times)

Fengol

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Doors vs Floodgates
« on: April 29, 2010, 02:37:26 am »

Is there a difference between using doors vs floodgates to stem the flow of water (either hooked up to a lever)?  Obviously a door carries the risk of a dwarf opening it but since there's nothing behind it of interest besides a torrent of water, there's no reason for them to go there.  Why should I use floodgates?
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AncientEnemy

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Re: Doors vs Floodgates
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2010, 03:00:31 am »

Mostly the only reason to use floodgates is because it's cooler and more challenging. (I mean it's rather unrealistic and silly to have your waterways controlled by doors).

the only differences in operation i can think of:
1. doors must be placed adjacent to a wall, floodgates don't have to be.
2. doors open and close immediately upon activation, floodgates have a 100 tick delay.

also, a (closed) door connected to a lever is not usable by dwarves.

Pickled Tink

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Re: Doors vs Floodgates
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2010, 03:34:06 am »

Dwarves and, more importantly, animals cannot accidentally open floodgates. It's just safer to use a floodgate as a result. Sure, you could have all doors tightly closed and locked, but if you miss just one, you have a ticking Fun-bomb.
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Kanddak

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Re: Doors vs Floodgates
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2010, 08:40:21 am »

I'm glad you asked, Fengol. Floodgates are basically a vestigial remnant of the 2D version when fluids worked totally differently, and I giggle endlessly that so many forums posters use them to control fluids because they've just arbitrarily settled on this idea that that's how to do it.
Dwarves and animals cannot open (accidentally or otherwise) doors that are operated by mechanisms, either. There is no safety benefit to using floodgates.
Since multiple-tile-wide aqueducts are inefficient (and result from poor understanding of how to move fluids quickly), the only reason to use a floodgate is when you actually want a 100-tick delay -- usually for synchronization with bridges in fluid logic systems.
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Andir

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Re: Doors vs Floodgates
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2010, 09:09:56 am »

Dwarves and, more importantly, animals cannot accidentally open floodgates. It's just safer to use a floodgate as a result. Sure, you could have all doors tightly closed and locked, but if you miss just one, you have a ticking Fun-bomb.
Not really, the door will close by itself unless obstructed, so as soon as the way is clear, the door will seal and the water will stop and eventually evaporate.  Unless said water is under great pressure (ie: you have enough pumps to "teleport" water inside your entire fortress) or you have a confined area, you should not lose any dwarfs or your fort to an accidental opening (which is tough to get in the first place.  I've only seen it once.)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 09:12:08 am by Andir »
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Lytha

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Re: Doors vs Floodgates
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2010, 09:44:41 am »

I've had a child open a door once behind which the magma was. Of course, this way very high up in the z-levels, the bridges along the door were narrow, and it maybe thought that this was the best way to reach a spot next to its mother, who was setting up a lever at that time.

At least, I am reasonably sure that it was the child that opened that door, and not a cat or the mother herself, since she was busy with the lever at that point, just before the magma burned her dead, I mean.

I'm a bit wary of doors as walls of my magmaducts since then, but I still use them anyway.
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Andir

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Re: Doors vs Floodgates
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2010, 10:22:18 am »

I usually use at least 2-3 layers of protection (doors, rooms for dispersal, etc.) between as well... just in case.
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

DarthCloakedDwarf

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Re: Doors vs Floodgates
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2010, 10:40:45 am »

Real dwarves use floodgates.

That, and I heard water can hold doors open.
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Calhoun

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Re: Doors vs Floodgates
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2010, 10:46:18 am »

I've never bothered to use floodgates, ever.

Even if your door ISN'T connected to mechanisms, you can STILL stop dwarfs from using i by fobiding it.

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Syff

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Re: Doors vs Floodgates
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2010, 03:16:35 pm »

Real dwarves use floodgates.

That, and I heard water can hold doors open.

Based on my experience, water does indeed hold most common doors open.  However, mechanically closed doors (which are the ones that would be used in place of floodgates) will "crush" any fluids remaining in that tile. (as floodgates do)

I am in agreement that the only situation where a floodgate would be preferable is when the delay matters for synchronization.

Personally, whenever possible, I prefer toggling gears connected to pumps for managing fluids, though that requires more intricate plumbing systems.
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Lord Darkstar

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Re: Doors vs Floodgates
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2010, 03:22:59 pm »

Do invaders take doors used to control fluids? Flood gates cannot be captured, only destroyed, as far as I know.
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Sphalerite

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Re: Doors vs Floodgates
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2010, 03:38:35 pm »

It has been my experience that water never holds doors open.  Any random physical object will hold a door open, but doors, whether controlled by mechanisms or allowed to open and close naturally, will destroy any water or magma in the space when they close.  I have used this many times to make safety exits from cisterns, drainage lines, and other places that might be flooded.  Several doors in a row will let a dwarf escape without letting much water escape with him, and the water that goes with him never stops the doors from closing.
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Kanddak

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Re: Doors vs Floodgates
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2010, 04:01:57 pm »

It has been my experience that water never holds doors open.  Any random physical object will hold a door open, but doors, whether controlled by mechanisms or allowed to open and close naturally, will destroy any water or magma in the space when they close.  I have used this many times to make safety exits from cisterns, drainage lines, and other places that might be flooded.  Several doors in a row will let a dwarf escape without letting much water escape with him, and the water that goes with him never stops the doors from closing.
Yep. I've used exactly that principle when sending dwarves to open holes in the bottom of oceans. The dwarf gets submerged, then opens the first door in the escape tunnel; the first section of the escape tunnel is instantly filled by pressurized ocean water; the first door closes by the time the dwarf reaches the second door in the escape tunnel and opens it, which allows a little water to trickle through before it closes again.

I see a bunch of people posted anecdotes about doors accidentally being opened. They seem to be confusing the issue by discussing mishaps involving doors which were not linked to levers, so I'm going to reiterate that the OP was comparing floodgates with doors linked to levers and a door linked to a lever cannot be opened by creatures, only by pulling the lever, so it can't be accidentally opened by a child, it can't be accidentally opened by a pet, it can't be captured by invaders, and it doesn't matter whether the door will close itself or not with liquids in its same tile because it won't close itself under any circumstances except pulling the lever again. It will act exactly like a floodgate (which, incidentally, can also be jammed by loose objects), except better for most applications because it operates instantaneously.
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de5me7

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Re: Doors vs Floodgates
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2010, 04:05:23 pm »

if this hasnt already been said

flood gates do not need an adjacent wall, doors do. You cant create a barrier of four doors in a row sealing off a passageway.
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Corona688

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Re: Doors vs Floodgates
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2010, 04:35:25 pm »

..or a 2-tile wide aqueduct, for that matter.
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