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[smigenboger]

I'm a fan of Python, much more user-friendly for learning OOP and has -ok- performance, especially for what you want to do with it.

C++ is for crunching numbers. Many games have both languages, using python for things like the [tag] functions in DF.

BF2 is written in both Python and C++, and is an excellent start for learning how a game is put together. It will also give you a little knowledge about 3d placement

[Lordinquisitor]

Ah, so a mixture of both seems to be the best thing, eh? Well, i think since Civilization uses python it might also be a good start.. Seems like i should have a look at all of them and choose the one i`m most comfortable with.

[smigenboger]

C++ and Java are starting to become dated, and Python is getting old too. Granted it's been about three years, it may be worth checking out some up and coming languages

[Andir]

C++ and Java are starting to become dated

That's not a bad thing... you can usually find tons of resources, example code, etc.

But someone mentioned Lisp earlier... if you were to go that route, I highly recommend looking at Clojure instead, even though it's pretty much a newborn as far as languages are concerned.  The guy behind it has improved a lot of the "pitfalls" in the list style of programming.  It's also very easy to do concurrent programs and has a great memory model for doing it so you don't have to worry about locks, and such.  It does use the Java runtime, but in "-server" mode Java IS one of the (or the) fastest bytecode languages around and it does quite well for itself.  Where Java lags is interfaces.

[Shades]

C++ and Java are starting to become dated, and Python is getting old too. Granted it's been about three years, it may be worth checking out some up and coming languages

What has been about three years?

Python is 19 years old, 4 years older than Java. C++ of course is ancient but the new C++0x standard should be out next year so it's not like its a stagnant language.

Not suggesting that you should avoid checking out up and coming languages but don't forget a fair few are invented each year and most get abandoned pretty quickly.

[eerr]

C++ and Java are starting to become dated, and Python is getting old too. Granted it's been about three years, it may be worth checking out some up and coming languages

Dated? lol
Java hasn't quite turned the path of machine language yet.

Though C# is a great new language, it basically does what microsoft wanted from Java.

[smigenboger]

Oh, it's been about three years since I've done programming. Wow I didn't know Python was older than Java, and that both were that old. That makes C++ older than me

[Shades]

Oh, it's been about three years since I've done programming. Wow I didn't know Python was older than Java, and that both were that old. That makes C++ older than me

Basically nothing new has come into programming since 1960ish so don't worry about it too much

Simula was the first OO language for example which was from '67.

While I'm on the subject nothing new has come into computers as a whole since the 60s either, the GUI, video conferencing, hypertext, email, collaborative editors etc etc are all in 'the mother of all demos' which was from '68.

Sometimes I wonder what we've been doing all these years.....
Other than making everything more sparkly of course.

[Andir]

Sometimes I wonder what we've been doing all these years.....
Other than making everything more sparkly of course.

Constantly making and remaking the same systems over and over and over again...

[qwertyuiopas]

C is nearly 40 years old, according to wikipedia.

Java is certainly slower than assembly language, simply because even if java was theoretically faster, you could create an identical implementation and it would run equally fast, but then you could further optimize at least a few instructions.

[Andir]

C is nearly 40 years old, according to wikipedia.

Java is certainly slower than assembly language, simply because even if java was theoretically faster, you could create an identical implementation and it would run equally fast, but then you could further optimize at least a few instructions.

But it would most definitely be tied to whatever specific processor/architecture you built it on.  Comparing Java to Assembly is rather silly... that's like comparing a mass produced car engine to a Formula One racing engine.  Yeah, it's fast... but you wouldn't use it as a daily driver.  There are advantages to abstraction.

[runrobotrun]

There are advantages to abstraction.

this

also, not sure if this has been stated, but I believe that C was first, then Java--which introduced OOP, then C++, whose goal was a more machine-specific language

[Sir Pseudonymous]

C++ came quite a while before java, and neither introduced OOP, and while C might have come first out of those three, it was hardly one of the first languages...

[Shades]

then Java--which introduced OOP

Simula was the first OO language for example which was from '67.

From earlier in the thread

Java is certainly slower than assembly language, simply because even if java was theoretically faster, you could create an identical implementation and it would run equally fast, but then you could further optimize at least a few instructions.

My point was that a compiled program, is not always faster than the JIT optimisations for that particular set of hardware. You rarely target a compiled program at one chipset. But yes anything it can do you could write a similar assembly program that only ran on that one machine.

Regarding the history of programming languages the first part of Crockford on JavaScript is about the history of language before javascript. Worth watching if your interested in that kind of thing.

[Jookia]

C/C++ has enough libraries to be able to do anything other languages can, but lower level and way more control.
C++ has object orientation and whatnot. If you learn C++, you basically know C.

If you know C++, you know OOP and have a good kickstart for most other languages.

Though, NEVER go near C#. Microsoft wants Linux devs to use it so they can sue the crap out of them.