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Author Topic: Stephen Hawking is afraid of aliens  (Read 18815 times)

ChairmanPoo

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Re: Stephen Hawking is afraid of aliens
« Reply #210 on: May 07, 2010, 12:33:56 pm »

To draw an allegory, Roman slaves were like middle-class salaried blue-collar workers of the modern age. They recieved a stipend from their employer (owner) and got a house of their own, etc. etc.


well, depended on the slave, obviously (goes without saying that a slave being worked to death in a mine or in a latifund was obviously NOT middle class). But my point stands: the system was complex, and not all slaves, or all free men, were the same.
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DJ

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Re: Stephen Hawking is afraid of aliens
« Reply #211 on: May 07, 2010, 12:37:40 pm »

I'm mostly refering to agricultural slaves, the kind that made up the majority of slave population.
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Eagleon

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Re: Stephen Hawking is afraid of aliens
« Reply #212 on: May 07, 2010, 01:10:18 pm »

Also, I find the whole "but they have enough resources" argument naive. That's like saying they have enough dakka.
... But they really, really do. I mean unless they're all around us in every system proximate to Earth, in huge populations that dwarf our own (very unlikely considering how silent it is out there), there's so much resources in our own system alone off of Earth that you can't possibly believe they'd come here just for Earth's.

Our star isn't that special. Our planet isn't that special, except for its life and certain characteristics of its atmosphere. Life would be the only logical thing they could be after in our system, resource-wise, really, besides maybe our brains. If it's life that they want, it makes much more sense to take genetic samples and transport those than packing whole critters into freight ships. If it's people, well, it'd be silly to invade when they could just talk to us instead. And automated production, refineries, and shipment would be a -lot- more efficient than feeding and sheltering humans, especially curious and destructive humans that might destroy delicate equipment. This is completely ignoring the cost of sending bulk freight through interstellar space, something that is unimaginable given our own technology (we could only manage very small packages, or a hopelessly slow speed), and probably isn't going to get much more sensible unless we discover a way to produce free energy. That or teleportation/FTL.
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DJ

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Re: Stephen Hawking is afraid of aliens
« Reply #213 on: May 07, 2010, 01:23:20 pm »

The more you have, the more you want. I think the only reason that our whole damn galaxy hasn't been strip-mined is that FTL travel is simply impossible.

Oh, and I never mentioned moving humans anywhere. The most reasonable way for the to use us would be to get us to submit, then go away and tell us that they're coming back in ten years, and if they don't find X amount of metal bars/whatever in our orbit, they'll kill us all. A bit similar to the Ur Quan.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 01:25:53 pm by DJ »
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Re: Stephen Hawking is afraid of aliens
« Reply #214 on: May 07, 2010, 01:24:45 pm »

Going back to the Bill Gates argument; I think if we're going to be fair, an interstellar alien race coming over here to take our resources is like Bill gates crossing the street to pick up a penny from a moldy puddle, while standing on the side with bushels of cash in nice, convinient packages.
 
Now, let's suppose that unbenownst to us, earth has a creamy nougat filling and the aliens know this. What do we gain by learning that aliens are coming to destroy us all?
 
Even worse, if the aliens are fifty years away, our options are:
 
1: Don't tell anyone and don't care, and spend the next fifty years perfectly normally and with the moderate comfort that our current way of life gives us.
 
2: Tell everybody and give proof and spend the next fifty years in anarchy.
 
3: Tell everybody and give proof and just watch as, in five decades, the entire planetary defence system that trillions of dollars and to co-operation of every nation on earth went into the making of, gets vaporized in several microseconds, shortly before the earth is.
 
After all, if there WAS something worth having inside of earth, the best way to deal with the gravity well problem would be to get rid of it.
 
But, and let's not forget this, there is nothing inside of earth that is not available elsewhere, in many orders of magnitude greater quantity, that is many orders of magnitude easier to access.
 
Maybe more like Bill Gates climbing down a well to get a sliver of raw copper protected by a bacterium.

And Slaves? What is this, the 1950's? Aliens don't want HU-MON slaves for the same reason we don't put saddles on grasshoppers.
 
And even though FTL is probably impossible, the galaxy SHOULD have been strip-mined already by STL vessels many times over.
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DJ

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Re: Stephen Hawking is afraid of aliens
« Reply #215 on: May 07, 2010, 01:27:28 pm »

Another alternative is that there simply aren't aliens more advanced than us. And I don't think that STL resource collection is practical at all.
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Re: Stephen Hawking is afraid of aliens
« Reply #216 on: May 07, 2010, 02:00:50 pm »

Another alternative is that there simply aren't aliens more advanced than us. And I don't think that STL resource collection is practical at all.

This may be more likely than we think.
After all, it may become evident that the punctuated equilibrium model will be more accurate that it seems. Perhaps life, while likely to appear, is unlikely to become multicellular (or the alien equivelent). Or we may find that alien life has evolved and selected, it's just that outside of earth, nothing really selects for space travel.
 
And the universe is still rather young... we probably weren't the first LIFE, but may be the first INTELEGENCE (of our kind).
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DJ

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Re: Stephen Hawking is afraid of aliens
« Reply #217 on: May 07, 2010, 02:10:22 pm »

Yeah, I too think we joined the civ race quite early. And I also think that FTL travel is as likely as perpetuum mobile.
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kuro_suna

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Re: Stephen Hawking is afraid of aliens
« Reply #218 on: May 07, 2010, 02:14:30 pm »

That means its our civic duty to colonize the galaxy, leave behind mysterious ruins and advanced technological artifacts and then all disappear for some reason.
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DJ

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Re: Stephen Hawking is afraid of aliens
« Reply #219 on: May 07, 2010, 02:42:23 pm »

Hehehe, I can already imagine some alien race trying to divine secrets of the universe from a sketch of goatse carved into a monolith.
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JoshuaFH

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Re: Stephen Hawking is afraid of aliens
« Reply #220 on: May 07, 2010, 02:45:19 pm »

Which reminds me, is it possible for an alien race to tap into our internet and explore human culture from a safe distance?

If so, we're doomed.
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DJ

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Re: Stephen Hawking is afraid of aliens
« Reply #221 on: May 07, 2010, 03:02:34 pm »

You mean they're doomed.
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Tarran

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Re: Stephen Hawking is afraid of aliens
« Reply #222 on: May 07, 2010, 03:03:47 pm »

Nah, don't worry. If they had connection to our internet they would see how valuable human life is, and how they should not even land on earth lest they be shot at. :P

You mean they're doomed.

 ;D
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Stephen Hawking is afraid of aliens
« Reply #223 on: May 07, 2010, 03:06:36 pm »

You mean they're doomed.


You know, I am suddenly reminded of the short story "Quarantine", by Arthur C Clarke.


http://www.research.ibm.com/deepblue/learn/html/e.8.2.html


It's less than 200 words, so it wont take long to read it
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kuro_suna

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Re: Stephen Hawking is afraid of aliens
« Reply #224 on: May 07, 2010, 03:10:52 pm »

And I also think that FTL travel is as likely as perpetuum mobile.

Though FTL makes for a good space opera its not that necessary to colonies other planets.

Use any combination of:
1: robots
2: frozen embryos in a artificial womb (probably combined with #1)
3: biological immortality
4: cryogenic suspension
5: generation ship
6: fusion or antimatter thrusters

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