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[Neruz]

They wouldn't have to come here to kill us at all. That would be silly. They'd just have to send something that could. Nukes are primitive though, and would ruin a perfectly good planet. I'd expect Von-Neumann machines programmed to destroy sources of electromagnetic radiation. That would bring us to our knees pretty quickly (can you say Dark Ages?), and keep us there unless we were very, very organized and reacted quickly to preserve the technology to -maybe- rebuild and fight back with our own machines. Which humans tend not to do in the face of crisis.

Congratulations, you've destroyed and subdued a planet that is so far away that actually doing anything worthwhile with it is a complete waste of time and resources!

Wait, this plan had a flaw in it...

[Eagleon]

Congratulations, you've destroyed and subdued a planet that is so far away that actually doing anything worthwhile with it is a complete waste of time and resources!

Wait, this plan had a flaw in it...

Terraforming is still expensive compared to that They might just want the nice trees to look at, and puppies. And I still maintain they'd choose the 'better safe than sorry' approach, such that they'd -want- to take out a civilization capable of producing similar technology that could destroy them. Which we really might be.

And it's also a decent scenario for why we haven't seen anything out there. Every civilization is going to start with EM communications. So a group of von Neumann machines that seek EM sources out... well, it might take a bit, but eventually they're going to come after you. At that point you have numbers vs. sheer size of the civilization being attacked. Someone might figure out a defense that disables them, but there's not really much defense against a couple hundred living warheads. You can disable them, but they're still moving towards you.

[dragnar]

It won't be long before we are capable of simply shooting anything like that out of the sky before it gets anywhere near earth. Von Neumann machines really aren't capable of taking down an advanced civilization because they can simply be destroyed before they can build enough of themselves to overwhelm the defenses.

[Neruz]

The inability of you guys to comprehend the sheer numbers involved in the undertakings you are suggesting is so very, very human.

[DJ]

and no angry/noisy apes

How many times do I have to say that we're not a problem, but an asset? We're advanced enough to mine and refine metal, and then deliver it to our orbit, but we're not advanced enough to be much of a threat. And if there's one thing humans know how to do, it's kneeling before those stronger than us (our entire history proves this quite well). There wouldn't be much of a conquest, they'd just need to make examples of a couple of cities.

And free labour is cheaper than doing something yourself, however you look at it.

[Aqizzar]

How many times do I have to say that we're not a problem, but an asset?

Quisling!  You'll not sell me out to the alien overlords!  Love Live the Free Earth Passive-Resistance!

[Neruz]

and no angry/noisy apes

How many times do I have to say that we're not a problem, but an asset? We're advanced enough to mine and refine metal, and then deliver it to our orbit, but we're not advanced enough to be much of a threat. And if there's one thing humans know how to do, it's kneeling before those stronger than us (our entire history proves this quite well). There wouldn't be much of a conquest, they'd just need to make examples of a couple of cities.

And free labour is cheaper than doing something yourself, however you look at it.

Actually our entire history proves that what you are proposing (violent suppression of Humans) never works out in the long term.

[Blacken]

Alternatively, melt the Earth into a ball of easily consumable molten rock from a distance at which we can neither target them or maybe even see them.

Do you have any fucking idea how much energy that would require? A Type II civilization (on the Kardashev) scale might be able to harness that much energy (depends on the size of it)...but it couldn't transport it.

[Neruz]

Alternatively, melt the Earth into a ball of easily consumable molten rock from a distance at which we can neither target them or maybe even see them.

Do you have any fucking idea how much energy that would require? A Type II civilization (on the Kardashev) scale might be able to harness that much energy (depends on the size of it)...but it couldn't transport it.

The fact that he appears to have suggested it as a viable course of action clearly indicates he does not.

[Blacken]

Alternatively, melt the Earth into a ball of easily consumable molten rock from a distance at which we can neither target them or maybe even see them.

Do you have any fucking idea how much energy that would require? A Type II civilization (on the Kardashev) scale might be able to harness that much energy (depends on the size of it)...but it couldn't transport it.

The fact that he appears to have suggested it as a viable course of action clearly indicates he does not.

I agree; I was being rhetorical. People who can't do math are funny.

[Aqizzar]

It does raise the important point.  Any civilization with the ability to produce energy and material tools on the scale need to launch invasions of solar systems from other solar systems, almost certainly has the capability to produce energy and material in such abundance that it would never need to conquer anything.  Even if you did need a planet's worth of iron or something, there's plenty of perfectly serviceable dead-rock worlds, without the muss and fuss of turning a planet like Earth into an ingot.

[Neruz]

It does raise the important point.  Any civilization with the ability to produce energy and material tools on the scale need to launch invasions of solar systems from other solar systems, almost certainly has the capability to produce energy and material in such abundance that it would never need to conquer anything.  Even if you did need a planet's worth of iron or something, there's plenty of perfectly serviceable dead-rock worlds, without the muss and fuss of turning a planet like Earth into an ingot.

This is exactly what i said.

[3]

Actually, it's not dissimilar to what I said on page 8. So there.

[Neruz]

No U.

[DJ]

and no angry/noisy apes

How many times do I have to say that we're not a problem, but an asset? We're advanced enough to mine and refine metal, and then deliver it to our orbit, but we're not advanced enough to be much of a threat. And if there's one thing humans know how to do, it's kneeling before those stronger than us (our entire history proves this quite well). There wouldn't be much of a conquest, they'd just need to make examples of a couple of cities.

And free labour is cheaper than doing something yourself, however you look at it.

Actually our entire history proves that what you are proposing (violent suppression of Humans) never works out in the long term.

So you think feudalism is just a conspiracy theory?