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[ChairmanPoo]

It'd actually be more efficient than what we have. We currently have to have our brain cells shoot out one of two different chemicals to make the electrons flow or not. With a silicon-based cell, the energy producer (mitochondria for us) could simply charge and discharge the P and N junctions of a diode-like structure, which would cut out the chemical-based middleman.

What do you mean, that silicon-based lifeforms would have a more efficient energy production system (through some alternative to the electron transport chain?), or a more efficient synaptic system?

[Char13magne]

Hi guys, new to this discussion topic, but I just wanted to get my opinions on the matter into the fray. My following statement represents my opinions on intelligent life in the universe, not on Hawking's "fear toward aliens," so please don't kill me if I'm off topic.

    My schtick in this case is threefold in its presentation;
A. The aforementioned alien life has developed as a predator, and as such will be extremeely hostile but possibly not    particularly advanced.

B. The aliens have developed as omnivores, in which case they will have an approximately equal chance of being hostile as of being peaceful, and will in many regards be comparable to humans in their political and ethical entities/structures.

C. They will be completely unrecognizable and unknown to humans, and, transversely, we to them as well.

I will of course, accept any criticism or corrections to my opinions/grammar (which I pride myself on).   

[Solifuge]

I would have to agree, in some regards. Given that every form of life we know is based on a very similar chemical make up, with very similar senses, structures, and capabilities (all things considered) and given that the universe is full of vastly different worlds than our own... I don't suspect any other self-sustaining reaction similar to what we call "Life on Earth" can even be imagined. We are projecting ourselves and our knowledge into space, thinking of what we would do if an advanced form of ourselves were out there, comming for us in spaceships.

Look for a moment at cats and humans. We have vastly different emotional, sensory, and psychological structures than they do, and yet they share most of our DNA. When looking at Extraterrestrials, we aren't even necessarily looking at DNA, emotions, or minds at all anymore. They probably don't have the same shared ancestors as us, and we aren't looking at the biological systems and senses and so on that Earth Life evolved to use.

We might encounter a mass of self-replicating methane-componds that fueled its "biology" using electromagnetic pulses from a pulsar instead of sunlight or food, and "sensed" and communicated using fluctuations in magnetic fields. That's about as feasible as Earth life, which is a mass of carbon-based chemicals that that derives all its energy from UV radiation from a star, and communicates by making vibrations in the air, no?

When considering Alien "life" it's not a matter of languages or social differences or technological differences, but a completely different "thing" most probably sharing nothing in common with anything we have on Earth. We probably won't have enough similarities to even attempt communication, because we may well not share senses. They probably wouldn't even share our central nervous system, and may not even have memories or emotions or experiences anything like ours.

When considering alien "life", consider just how alien the thigns on earth are. Jellyfish have no brains, and yet can hunt, communicate, and reproduce just fine. Water Bears can dessicate completely, and remain completely dry and "dead" for hundreds of years, yet when they hit water, they come back to life. And we're all based on the same things. Imagine, then, what would emerge from planets that have no sun, or which drift through nebulas of ionized gas, or are blasted regularly by intense electromagnetism... and have chemical makeups nothing like that of Earth. Alien "life" may not even originalte on planets, but could be born from gas clouds left by supernovas, and could drift through space filtering chemicals out of nebulas over the centuries.

What then, is advanced technology going to do? If their "biology" prevented them from aging or freezing, and they came from a world with next to no gravity, they could just sling unprotected "explorers" of their kind into space with little more than a giant rubber band and a sketchpad to take notes. That could be the invasion we would face... a little lump of chemicals with the alien equivalent of a charcoal and sketchpad, that slipped into Earth's gravity, and burns up in the atmosphere, with no one any the wiser. Seriously.

[Char13magne]

I would have to agree, in some regards. Given that every form of life we know is based on a very similar chemical make up, with very similar senses, structures, and capabilities (all things considered) and given that the universe is full of vastly different worlds than our own... I don't suspect any other self-sustaining reaction similar to what we call "Life on Earth" can even be imagined. We are projecting ourselves and our knowledge into space, thinking of what we would do if an advanced form of ourselves were out there, comming for us in spaceships.

Look for a moment at cats and humans. We have vastly different emotional, sensory, and psychological structures than they do, and yet they share most of our DNA. When looking at Extraterrestrials, we aren't even necessarily looking at DNA, emotions, or minds at all anymore. They probably don't have the same shared ancestors as us, and we aren't looking at the biological systems and senses and so on that Earth Life evolved to use.

We might encounter a mass of self-replicating methane-componds that fueled its "biology" using electromagnetic pulses from a pulsar instead of sunlight or food, and "sensed" and communicated using fluctuations in magnetic fields. That's about as feasible as Earth life, which is a mass of carbon-based chemicals that that derives all its energy from UV radiation from a star, and communicates by making vibrations in the air, no?

When considering Alien "life" it's not a matter of languages or social differences or technological differences, but a completely different "thing" most probably sharing nothing in common with anything we have on Earth. We probably won't have enough similarities to even attempt communication, because we may well not share senses. They probably wouldn't even share our central nervous system, and may not even have memories or emotions or experiences anything like ours.

When considering alien "life", consider just how alien the thigns on earth are. Jellyfish have no brains, and yet can hunt, communicate, and reproduce just fine. Water Bears can dessicate completely, and remain completely dry and "dead" for hundreds of years, yet when they hit water, they come back to life. And we're all based on the same things. Imagine, then, what would emerge from planets that have no sun, or which drift through nebulas of ionized gas, or are blasted regularly by intense electromagnetism... and have chemical makeups nothing like that of Earth. Alien "life" may not even originalte on planets, but could be born from gas clouds left by supernovas, and could drift through space filtering chemicals out of nebulas over the centuries.

What then, is advanced technology going to do? If their "biology" prevented them from aging or freezing, and they came from a world with next to no gravity, they could just sling unprotected "explorers" of their kind into space with little more than a giant rubber band and a sketchpad to take notes. That could be the invasion we would face... a little lump of chemicals with the alien equivalent of a charcoal and sketchpad, that slipped into Earth's gravity, and burns up in the atmosphere, with no one any the wiser. Seriously.

I see you are a supporter of my "opinion C" in this case? Yes, I agree with you that said invasion could easily go unnoticed as would have no idea what to expect in other sentient life, as I stated in my original post. Thanks for your well though out and worded response, keep it up, I live for debate! (Oh, and sorry for quoting your entire schpiel, I realize now that I probably could have taken an excerpt  )

                       Oh well, Cheers!

[3]

On your other points - I feel that it's a little strange to talk about whether a species is carnivorous or herbivorous or whatever when we're discussing spacefaring species and the relationships between multiple thereof. Not only, as stated above, does it appear most likely that any extraterrestrial life would be extremely distinct from that which we know, it's also likely that a species that relies on... I forget my biological words. I'll say "ingestion". A species that relies on regular ingestion of whatever substance to survive isn't likely to be able to travel the vast distances involved in space travel without either a means of synthesizing such a substance, or a hugely abundant supply of it.

If we were talking about lifeforms that relied on something entirely different, something "slower" (even something as comparatively tame as photosynthesis), then food might be a viable excuse for travel through space. If we're talking about creatures with a similar metabolism to ours, then...

[Char13magne]

On your other points - I feel that it's a little strange to talk about whether a species is carnivorous or herbivorous or whatever when we're discussing spacefaring species and the relationships between multiple thereof. Not only, as stated above, does it appear most likely that any extraterrestrial life would be extremely distinct from that which we know, it's also likely that a species that relies on... I forget my biological words. I'll say "ingestion". A species that relies on regular ingestion of whatever substance to survive isn't likely to be able to travel the vast distances involved in space travel without either a means of synthesizing such a substance, or a hugely abundant supply of it.

If we were talking about lifeforms that relied on something entirely different, something "slower" (even something as comparatively tame as photosynthesis), then food might be a viable excuse for travel through space. If we're talking about creatures with a similar metabolism to ours, then...

I see what you are saying, but again, a spacefaring species may have forms of synthesizing food. What I meant about omnivorous v. predatory is that generally omnivores will have more developed brains (they need them), so they will be more apt to be diplomatic, as well as the fact that they are partly herbivorous, which would never be sentient simply because they don't need developed brains, but in this case allows them a more docile nature, and possibly a sense of ethics (not that they need to be hippies or anything). Compare this with the killer instinct of a predator, as well as the fact that its (the pradator's) reason for travel might very well be to obtain food, a situation not dissimiliar to early man migrating across Beringia in order to find new hunting grounds, eventually ending up in N. America!

                 Cheers! (and keep up the good discussion, guys, debate is what I live for! )

[3]

generally omnivores will have more developed brains (they need them),

Point taken.

but in this case allows them a more docile nature, and possibly a sense of ethics (not that they need to be hippies or anything).[...]Compare this with the killer instinct of a predator,

This is what I mainly have a disagreement with. While I understand fundamental psychology will always have a role, by the stage of societal development we're talking about here, such a role shouldn't be so great that it'd override the judgement of an otherwise sapient race.

as well as the fact that its (the pradator's) reason for travel might very well be to obtain food, a situation not dissimiliar to early man migrating across Beringia in order to find new hunting grounds, eventually ending up in N. America!

As I said previously, I find the likelyhood of this sort of thing quite low. If the species is carnivorous, they'll require animal matter to survive, but if they can't survive without looking out prey as far away as other planets, they won't have enough food to get there in the first place, which requires them to go to other planets, which requires more food which they don't have, etc, etc..

[The Doctor]

Maybe it's more like the spice trade? They want more variety.

[Heron TSG]

It'd actually be more efficient than what we have. We currently have to have our brain cells shoot out one of two different chemicals to make the electrons flow or not. With a silicon-based cell, the energy producer (mitochondria for us) could simply charge and discharge the P and N junctions of a diode-like structure, which would cut out the chemical-based middleman.

What do you mean, that silicon-based lifeforms would have a more efficient energy production system (through some alternative to the electron transport chain?), or a more efficient synaptic system?

A more efficient synaptic system.

[ChairmanPoo]

in what way would it be more efficient?

[Heron TSG]

It'd only take a couple electrons to move to either side of the threshold value of the 'diode', as opposed to having to physically move a bunch of chemicals.

[ChairmanPoo]

can you ellaborate? I dont understand how this mitochondrial protein would eliminate the chemical middleman, or how it is particularily different from existing gradient-dependent membrane proteins and channels.

[sonerohi]

A silicon based lifeform would conduct better, no? They might manipulate subtleties in electric current and be able to feel it better than us. Also, their brain would work more rapidly.

[PTTG??]

A silicon based lifeform would conduct better, no? They might manipulate subtleties in electric current and be able to feel it better than us. Also, their brain would work more rapidly.

Stop!
Silicon life is NOT a computer!

The metaphor of the brain being "like" a computer is only vaguely true. As I said before, NEURONS ARE NOT GATES. And synapses are NOT binary. A silicon brain would still be far more like ours than it would be like a computer, if it isn't totally different from both- but it would definitely not be binary or machine like.

Silicon is a semiconductor only in the presence of certain trace impurities; in the conditions that silicon can act like carbon, we will not see semiconductive behavior without totally different chemistry.

Next person who so much as hints that silicon life would be a Rock Man will get a VERY STERN LECTURE.

[Aqizzar]

Next person who so much as hints that silicon life would be a Rock Man will get a VERY STERN LECTURE.

They would be heavier though, right?  I don't know the first thing about chemistry, but the synopsis of silicon-based life I read posited that emulating biological processes that way would require immensely more energy, like heat.  Silicon being denser than carbon, I would think such a lifeform would be more durable at least.