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[Disruptive Idiot]

Currently, there is no drawback to making a beeline to the magma and taking advantage of the unlimited fuel source. Coal and charcoal are completely bypassed except to make the requisite steel.

I propose that magma based workshops are unavailable until the Metalsmith's Guild Representative comes to the fort, like the Shop requires the bookkeeper. This would force the player to rely on coal and charcoal for a while, and I think make the game more interesting.

[Lord Blue]

No drawback? What about the hores of lava men, bat or ant men, fire snakes, and other beasties? Are you blind, man?

[CogDissident]

I find that most of the time the dangers of lava are nowhere near worth it for a lava forge, not until you have a lot of traps and a decent defense force.

[Maximus]

You still need coal/charcoal to make steel, which is the only metal I really want (adamantine notwithstanding).

I suppose the magma could be a little more dangerous, however.  I flank my magma shops with several stone-fall traps and rarely have any problems.

[Mechanoid]

quote:Originally posted by Disruptive Idiot:
Currently, there is no drawback to making a beeline to the magma and taking advantage of the unlimited fuel source.

If a fire man shows up early on when you have no real defenses other then traps, and gets past them, your metalsmith will be torched.

Aside from that, i think that bi-seasonal maintence should be required for all the lava workshops. Volcanic glass /stone /etc builds up on the steel parts which touch the lava (which heats the object being melted) which need to be removed to keep the forge operating at peak efficency. As well, degredation to these steel parts due to this cleaning should also happen, so that eventually the steel that composes the smelter /forge heater would have to be melted and remade.

This may put the player in a position to either:
1) Heavilly rely on the lava, and open a large area along the rivers' side to remain operational.
2) Switch between lava power, and charcoal /coke when the lava forges and smelters are being cleaned.

Note: The cleaning intervals should be based on the number of times the forges have been used and then unused. So, if the player forges one object every quarter of a season, allowing alot of time between forges and smeltings, the forge may have to be cleaned more often then if he had them running non-stop. Repeat orders? Every dwarf has to sleep, drink, and eat, which means that the forge would be allowed time to be cooled; thus unless the player had 3 smiths per forge, the player would be able to keep the cleanings down, but his production rate would be terrible.

[Capntastic]

I don't see why people have the urge to 'nerf' things that they think are 'too easy'.  Especially at this stage.   I am certain that when it is unknown when you will strike magma, or what obstacles you will encounter, that acquiring a magma forge will be a much larger hurdle.

[Wood Gnome]

i made it to the magma without a single attack, found coal along the way and thought i had it made.  then i had to mine out about half the mountainside between the chasm and the magma to find hematite to make the stupid steel, only finding a small pocket way down at the bottom of the map.  imagine the nightmares i have about trying to defend that honeycomb now.  it's the simple things that are the hardest to accomplish sometimes     besides, considering that the rest of the fortress lives and works between the river and the chasm, which is a long way away from the magma, the whole business is a pain, but i'm almost out of trees

[Kjoery]

I've lost a cople legendary metalsmiths to surprise 1-hit-kill imp attacks.

After that, though, I started using chained animals as bait further down the river.

[Woodstock]

I think the forges are fine as they are, doing anything to make them hard to maintain would only break up the sense of automation that this game eventually gives to your industry.

[axus]

I think it would make the game worse to put in that kind of barrier.  The risks from the lava are enough, and people on glacier maps don't have any charcoal.

[Disruptive Idiot]

Risks from lava? I've rushed to it for the majority of my games. I have been ambushed by firemen and imps frequently. I have lost a metalsmith once to either. Perhaps I'm just experiencing an incredibly easy time with the magma? I've always been able to easily secure my forges and I never worry about them. I've never suffered any drawback from the magma. I only ever used coal to make steel. From year 2 on, I'm fully magma smelting.

Maybe it's just my experiences o.O

[ctrlfrk]

I think the majority of the attacks come after year 2. Just wait.

[Disruptive Idiot]

quote:Originally posted by ctrlfrk:
<STRONG>I think the majority of the attacks come after year 2. Just wait.</STRONG>

Heh. I have played several long-lived fortresses. I am not a newbie. I know the risks of the magma well, and they pale in comparison to the production power with which it imparts you. A single squad of marksdwarves will dispatch any threats that assail your forges. Guarantee their presence with a small barracks, a well, and a food stock, and there is virtually no threat of severe repercussions from early exploitation of the magma flow.

Perhaps you lose one metalsmith. You still produce weapons, armor, and wealth without heed for your resources.

[AlStar]

quote:Originally posted by Capntastic:
<STRONG>I am certain that when it is unknown when you will strike magma, or what obstacles you will encounter, that acquiring a magma forge will be a much larger hurdle.</STRONG>

Just quoting this so that it gets noticed - Toady has plans to make the inside of the mountain much more interesting. It is rather likely that you will not want to dig stright there if you know that you might run into an antman colony or dragon's lair or something in between.

[Stromko]

That sounds awesome   (personally, I haven't)

A dragon or a really nasty siege should keep things interesting, or just dealing with a**hole nobles.