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[Realmfighter]

Aqizzar, thank you. Without that, i could go on with my delusion that delusional Cristian nuts were semi-harmless!

Damn.

[KaelGotDwarves]

Still... maybe %0.01 of gun crimes...

I also vote to legalize rape because it only happens to .01% of women and that is acceptable.

[Aqizzar]

Still... maybe %0.01 of gun crimes...

And you would say exactly the same thing about any other list of incidents.  0.01% does add up you know.  I'm sure every one of those doctors killed in their home by an assassin they never saw with a perfectly legal weapon takes great solace in your insistence that ownership of a handgun and good training with it would have protected them from assault.

[Andir]

Still... maybe %0.01 of gun crimes...

And you would say exactly the same thing about any other list of incidents.  0.01% does add up you know.  I'm sure every one of those doctors killed in their home by an assassin they never saw with a perfectly legal weapon takes great solace in your insistence that ownership of a handgun and good training with it would have protected them from assault.

So you're saying that the "doctors killed in their home" would not have been killed if someone had to do it with a baseball bat instead?  The people that killed them most likely would have done it with whatever weapon they could get their hands on...

[Leafsnail]

Firstly, without any regard to the rest of the debate... saying that something should be given special treatment in terms of regulation since it hasn't been used in crimes previously is fallacious.  It seems kindof like saying "My house has never been broken in to while other houses in my neighbourhood have, therefore I can start leaving my key in the lock".

And... in the grand scheme of things, that IS quite a lot of crimes considering the relative rarity and scarcity of the .50 cal.  Basically... it's a weapon that's VERY useful for taking someone out at a long distance without them noticing.

So you're saying that the "doctors killed in their home" would not have been killed if someone had to do it with a baseball bat instead?  The people that killed them most likely would have done it with whatever weapon they could get their hands on...

And yet you have a far better chance of defending yourself or escaping from some nutter with a baseball bat...

[Realmfighter]

So you're saying that the "doctors killed in their home" would not have been killed if someone had to do it with a baseball bat instead?  The people that killed them most likely would have done it with whatever weapon they could get their hands on...

Killing someone by pulling a trigger is completely differnt that bashing there head in while they scream bloody murder.

[Oglokoog]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Gun control is murder by proxy.

[Andir]

So you're saying that the "doctors killed in their home" would not have been killed if someone had to do it with a baseball bat instead?  The people that killed them most likely would have done it with whatever weapon they could get their hands on...

Killing someone by pulling a trigger is completely differnt that bashing there head in while they scream bloody murder.

Replace baseball bat with cut brake line, cut gas line, fireplace poker... What I'm saying is that those people were killed by someone motivated to kill.  The weapon was an instrument, not the motive.

[Realmfighter]

Guns just make murder easier to do, both in the physical and mental sense.

[Andir]

Guns just make murder easier to do, both in the physical and mental sense.

You have something to back that up?  You do know you can be shot in a non-fatal way, right?  Simply being hit by a bullet is not a death sentence.

[Leafsnail]

Guns just make murder easier to do, both in the physical and mental sense.

You have something to back that up?  You do know you can be shot in a non-fatal way, right?  Simply being hit by a bullet is not a death sentence.

...So?  It's still a lot easier to kill someone with a gun than it is to get your hands dirty.  Even if the person has a chance to survive being hit by a bullet, that means nothing.

[Andir]

Guns just make murder easier to do, both in the physical and mental sense.

You have something to back that up?  You do know you can be shot in a non-fatal way, right?  Simply being hit by a bullet is not a death sentence.

...So?  It's still a lot easier to kill someone with a gun than it is to get your hands dirty.  Even if the person has a chance to survive being hit by a bullet, that means nothing.

How exactly does it make it easier to decide to kill someone?  If you've decided to kill someone, you will pick up the tool that makes it easy, sure... but simply having the gun does not place the thought in your head, "I need to kill someone!"

[Leafsnail]

It doesn't.  But it makes that thought a lot easier to turn into reality.

To take an extreme example, would Lee Harvey Oswald have been able to kill JFK with a baseball bat?

[Andir]

It doesn't.  But it makes that thought a lot easier to turn into reality.

To take an extreme example, would Lee Harvey Oswald have been able to kill JFK with a baseball bat?

Probably not a baseball bat, but a fast truck slamming into his open car might have.

I'm done with this conversation btw...

Here are stats detailing the drop in violent crime in America during a time of heavy ordinance purchases and lessening wait times for purchase... (ie: gun sales have been going up the past few years, crime has been going down)

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2009prelimsem/index.html
 - http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2009prelimsem/table_1.html
 - http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2009prelimsem/table_2.html
 - http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2009prelimsem/table_3.html

There's plenty of data available if you get your fingers out of your ears.  The previous few posts have been concentrating on single incidents where even one gun could have done the damage.  In order to prevent such a thing, you'd have to totally eliminate every weapon on Earth to prevent these from happening.  Studies show that gun bans raise crime (look at the UK as the major example) and armed citizens deter crime.

For all those trying to follow along on-topic, I'm sorry for aggravating this discussion more than I should have.  I therefore ask you to continue your regularly scheduled thread and I'll be off.  Have a good time.  Again, I'm sorry.

[Vester]

It doesn't.  But it makes that thought a lot easier to turn into reality.

To take an extreme example, would Lee Harvey Oswald have been able to kill JFK with a baseball bat?

The question is, did Lee Harvey Oswald kill JFK? </conspiracy theory>

There might have been a second batter on the grassy knoll...