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[nunix]

..or something to that effect.

Playing around with different sorts of creatures and entities, I've found that - surprise - arrows are the great equaliser. Reducing damage doesn't help; it's the pierce-an-organ potential that makes them killers. Likewise, increased damblock doesn't really solve anything, because a) arrows like to bypass it, and b) it makes the creature unreasonably tough against everything else.

The various NO* tags, and removal of accompanying organs, can sort of bypass this, but it feels veeeery unsatisfying.

What would be better is a simple token that does not allow arrows to pierce the outer surface of the creature, or something scalable so it requires a certain density or.. something.

Anyway, would help even out the odds for creatures that don't use shields but shouldn't be struck down by a stray arrow or blowdart.

[Mechanoid]

that's a damn fine idea, but having specific tags for weapons, like:
[DART_PROOF]
[ARROW_PROOF]
[BOLT_PROOF]

would also be good, so players can make goblins immune to bolts, but not arrows, etc.

Or, some kind of [AMMO_DAMBLOCK:] value that works like [DAMBLOCK:] except only for ranged weapons.

[Capntastic]

Better armor blocks all things better.   But having weapon types go through different materials differently would be cool.

[Fieari]

Better yet, [PIERCEBLOCK:xx] / [PIERCEIMMUNE], which would also imply all the other damage types... BLUDGEON, SLASH, GORE, BURN, HEAT, and COLD.

To make it even better, you could also have [MATBLOCK :(material type):xx], to make creatures resistant to various materials... or by putting in a negative number, vulnerable to various materials.  Like giving werewolves a vulnerability to silver.

[nunix]

Yep, there's about a dozen different ways it could go.

I personally want to use this for some different kinds of stone creatures I have, and if it auto-calculated based on that (well, this is made of granite, but this bolt is adamantine, so it goes in..) that'd be fine.. but I'd completely settle for a general token for now, and then maybe get something later to fine-tune.

[Geofferic]

Seems that PIERCEPROOF would be a short cut but perhaps redundant.  (Not that I care.)

I think that, regardless, proofing against specific weapons might be good for when the magic comes in.

IE, a shield that magically granted immunity to arrows, wouldn't for bolts; for missile weapons, wouldn't for stabby items which would also pierce.

[Draco18s]

in the vein of dart/arrow/bolt don't forget the balista bolts.

[Mikademus]

quote:Originally posted by Fieari:
<STRONG>Better yet, [PIERCEBLOCK:xx] / [PIERCEIMMUNE], which would also imply all the other damage types... BLUDGEON, SLASH, GORE, BURN, HEAT, and COLD.

To make it even better, you could also have [MATBLOCK  :(material type):xx], to make creatures resistant to various materials... or by putting in a negative number, vulnerable to various materials.  Like giving werewolves a vulnerability to silver.</STRONG>

This seems to be a fine solution. Probably not a coincidence that it is quite similar to the d20 system, where armour have different damage reductions vs. piercing, cutting and bludgeoning (crushing) damage. Until the Atomic Interaction Arc is complete, this is probably the best and most flexible way to go.

[nunix]

Well, ballista would fall under SIEGEPROOF

[Draco18s]

quote:Originally posted by Mikademus:
<STRONG>This seems to be a fine solution. Probably not a coincidence that it is quite similar to the d20 system, where armour have different damage reductions vs. piercing, cutting and bludgeoning (crushing) damage.</STRONG>

It makes sense afterall.  Different kind of "damage" cuase wounds and "holes in armor" different ways.  No need to reinvent the wheel here.

quote:Originally posted by nunix:
<STRONG>Well, ballista would fall under SIEGEPROOF </STRONG>

IMO anything smaller than...a kobold (maybe even things kobold size) should be seiegproof due to size.  Ever tried hitting a fly with any kind of projectile?  It'd be like that.

[kamikazemoose]

quote:Originally posted by Draco18s:
<STRONG>

IMO anything smaller than...a kobold (maybe even things kobold size) should be seiegproof due to size.  Ever tried hitting a fly with any kind of projectile?  It'd be like that.</STRONG>

If you did hit a fly with a balista projectile I'm pretty sure you'd realize they most definately aren't siegeproof. The hard to hit part is another matter entirely...

[Draco18s]

quote:Originally posted by kamikazemoose:
<STRONG>If you did hit a fly with a balista projectile I'm pretty sure you'd realize they most definately aren't siegeproof. The hard to hit part is another matter entirely...</STRONG>

Well...going back to D&D a moment, "fine" creatures (i.e. the smallest category reserved for things like flies and ants) are immune to physical weapon damage.

Yes, IRL if you manage to hit a fly with a balista bolt it's dead.  Unfortunately IRL there's this funny thing called "air pressure" which pushes things around.  Large, flying balista bolts generate enough air pressure currents to knock aside tiny things--like flies.

Heck, most hand-held weapons cause enough air movement to either push aside the fly, or give it reaction time to just move out of the way.  This is why flyswatters have holes in them: to reduce that air pressure (and doesn't do a good enough job, but it's better than a rolled up newspaper or warhammer).

As for slashing and piercing weapons of all kinds...well...how far in how long does the fly have to move (at random) to not get hit?  Uh...half it's body size in 1/10th of a second.  Or roughly 1 inch in 1 second or 6.25 feet in a minute.  375 feet an hour.  That's really really slow.

Some googling indicates that insects typically measure speeds in the double-digit miles per hour (slowest speed noted so far is 2.5 mph of the mosquito).

It'd be like a car on the highway dodging a bullet.  No no, lets be realistic about this.  A car on the freeway--the only car on the freeway--dodging a guy throwing rocks from a block away: he can probably get rocks to the freeway, and he might be able to time it to hit the car, but if the dude knows the rock-tosser is there he can stop or speed up just a little and make that guy miss.

[Hague]

Simply giving the [CRIT_BOOST:] token to ammo would solve this problem by changing crit_boost to zero.

[Draco18s]

quote:Originally posted by Hague:
<STRONG>Simply giving the [CRIT_BOOST:] token to ammo would solve this problem by changing crit_boost to zero.</STRONG>

I've heard that taking out the crit boost doesn't make it so they can't critical, but makes it less likely (and it still happens too often).

[Lyrax]

quote:Originally posted by Draco18s:
<STRONG>Buncha stuff about shooting flies with ballistae.</STRONG>

If you're using DF ballistae to shoot flies, you're doing it all wrong.  They're already siege proof by being vermin.

Problem solved.