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Author Topic: 2D or 3D Fort Design  (Read 1567 times)

Fensfield

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2D or 3D Fort Design
« on: April 22, 2010, 05:46:25 pm »

Mostly just polling opinions for my own curiosity, but, how many people prefer to make heavy use of z-levels over large, primarily horizontal forts?

Lately I've taken to building my forts rather vertically, around a central column some 30 tiles wide that serves as a temporary fortress until the larger fortress around it has been dug out, and then as trade stores, defences, and military supply.  .. Also developed a nasty habit of digging out a chasm or sorts around that.  Both central column and later fort divide up into industrial levels, residential, military, service, etc..

The only point of problem with using vertical designs is it chews on the new burrows.
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Hyndis

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Re: 2D or 3D Fort Design
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2010, 06:00:21 pm »

I prefer to keep as many things on the same level as possible. Trudging up and down stairs continually would wear anyone out, so the forts just seem much more livable (if you ignore the FUN that is) if most of the fort is horizontally arranged, with no Z level changes unless there is a strong reason for it.
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Astramancer

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Re: 2D or 3D Fort Design
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2010, 06:04:18 pm »

I generally tend to build rather compact cubes underground.  I've got a fairly standard design for industrial sections that allows for the use of extensive magma works, really short walking paths between raw materials and workshops (finished goods generally tend to go farther and into massively huge hollowed out spaces), and very good protection from miasma (stupid cats bringing their masters stinking corpses), and berserk dwarves (very sealable).

Essentially, each workshop gets it's own room, with up/down stairs linking it to a massive open space sandwiched between two layers of workshops.  As needed, I can excavate higher/lower to expand this in a repeating pattern.

Bedrooms, however, tend to be 3x3 squares along 2-wide highways with up/down stairs in the hallway every 10 rooms or so (so about 40-50 tiles)

There's a really long, winding tunnel from the surface, past my barracks, to the trade depot.  The tunnel keeps going and forms the backbone that the rest of the fort is built along, with exact placement of everything depending on terrain features.
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Karnewarrior

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Re: 2D or 3D Fort Design
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2010, 06:09:13 pm »

Mine are very balanced. I have a central staircase and everything has a "district". Most Z-Levels have two or three "districts", but my stockpiles have a soil level all to themselves, as do the nobles. I also keep crypts at the bottom, below even the mines.

My bedroom design is 2x3 rectangles so they look square with fullscreen on. Upperclass dwarves get 3x3, and nobles get fancy irregular rooms proportioned to their status.

The new version has put a damper on vertical building I think.
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Mishy

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Re: 2D or 3D Fort Design
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2010, 08:25:10 pm »

I prefer 2d but i've recently found the benefit of 3d. I have my main fort at one level then each district has its stockpiles or whatever 1 level above/below.
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Logical2u

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Re: 2D or 3D Fort Design
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2010, 08:31:19 pm »

I'm still a sucker for 2-D fortress designs, simply because it allows you to better anticipate how pathing will work in the fort. But with the new burrows feature it's getting more and more tempting to use unique and creative multilevel designs.

For example, setting up small dining rooms for each section of dwarves (the Apartment complex layout from the wiki lends itself well to this) is now possible without having massive parties in a tiny confined space.
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Retro

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Re: 2D or 3D Fort Design
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2010, 08:37:04 pm »

I play 3D, but not very efficiently. Mostly I just like winding slopes and plateaus. It gets really frustrating when the FPS gets down a few years in, and I hate myself for it, but I can't stop myself.

Fetus4188

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Re: 2D or 3D Fort Design
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2010, 08:40:33 pm »

I prefer the 2D aesthetic and limit my forts to using about 5 z-levels (besides necessary offshoots like pump towers and proxy magma smelters.
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Nikov

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Re: 2D or 3D Fort Design
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2010, 08:54:04 pm »

As one who only played 3D, I've only found building rewarding when its both aesthetically pleasing and grandiose. Z-levels really help with this. Sure, dwarves don't recognize anything but the floor they're standing on in a dining room, but that doesn't mean a vaulted ceiling soaring ten stories above them isn't a nice touch. It also gives convenient places for gem windows to overlook the central halls. Once I've finally gotten myself back into playing, I eagerly await using the caverns and their natural pillars in creative and majestic ways.
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Ampoliros

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Re: 2D or 3D Fort Design
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2010, 09:01:35 pm »

3D all the way. The new cavern system when properly specified at worldgen gives you nice cavern layers with several solid z-levels inbetween, so i usually leave the caverns as seperators between the various zones - industry, residential/dining, storage. I've set my worldgen parameters for ~70/80 z-levels so I usually get 10, 15 z-levels between caverns which is enough for 200 dwarves worth of industrial and residential stuff. I've always been too nitpicky with my fortress designs to continue past a few years, though.
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Itnetlolor

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Re: 2D or 3D Fort Design
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2010, 09:27:09 pm »

I tend to use/exploit 2D as much as I can before I get into some fun ideas.

Right now, in my latest fort, I'm specializing certain 2D areas for different purposes, but if I have further plans then I would take advantage of the layouts and expand the fort outwards from there. After I have a reliable setup will I attempt to dig deeper.

3D would probably be used for more meaningful tasks like the animal dispensers or chop shops (essentially an animal dispenser, except riddled with weapon traps of your choice; more for entertainment with any invaders captured. Alternatively spike traps.), waterway elevators for your skilled swimmers, security systems, etc.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2010, 09:31:56 pm by Itnetlolor »
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Shiv

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Re: 2D or 3D Fort Design
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2010, 09:45:11 pm »

While I understand the benefit of 3D fort design due to pathing (path up one tile instead of across 3 tiles), I hate flipping z-levels, so I tend to have a main section that has my meeting room, all shops (except magma works in the current version), stockpiles, farms, and so forth.  Then I'll have an area above for a prison, an area below for a hospital (new version made me revise my time-tested design!), and another area three below for living quarters.  Other than that, I keep z-flipping to a minimal.
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Squirrelloid

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Re: 2D or 3D Fort Design
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2010, 09:47:56 pm »

Virtually pure 3D living and working spaces, designed with efficiency in mind.  Central 3x3 shaft, everything branching off of that, and nothing too distant from it.

I do tend to prefer to center it under a mega-project which doesn't adhere to those rules at all.  Similarly, noble quarters and tombs don't need to be anywhere near it: who cares about nobles?  And its not like you need to bury a body *that* often.
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Fensfield

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Re: 2D or 3D Fort Design
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2010, 12:23:44 pm »

Sorry, got dragged off to my grandmother's soon after posting.. now thieving wireless from her neighbour >.>

But anyway, I've been considering trying to hybrid it.  2D-primary, building the fort around 1-3 z-levels or so, but using other z-levels for the sake of sheer grandeur, with, as someone suggested above, multi-z-level vaulted dining rooms, two z-level tall corridors, and so on and so on.

...Though I still Really want to make one built around a massive, open-to-the-sky chasm.
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Exponent

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Re: 2D or 3D Fort Design
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2010, 02:55:25 pm »

While I understand the benefit of 3D fort design due to pathing (path up one tile instead of across 3 tiles), I hate flipping z-levels, so I tend to have a main section that has my meeting room, all shops (except magma works in the current version), stockpiles, farms, and so forth.  Then I'll have an area above for a prison, an area below for a hospital (new version made me revise my time-tested design!), and another area three below for living quarters.  Other than that, I keep z-flipping to a minimal.

Do you use the (Shift+) F1-F8 hotkeys for remembering specific locations?  Because (when I played) I used those all the time, whether in a 2D-ish or 3D-ish fort.  Cuts down on both z-flipping and arrowing significantly.
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