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[Acanthus117]

@ Vester:

Pretty damn good testing stage, I must say.

[Vester]

Yes. Yes, it's the best testing stage in existence.

yes, player input, but is really

"OMG! THIS GAME IN UNPLAYABL! IT SUX! U SHUD MAEK LEIK DE 40D BE HAS UNDERGROUND CAN U DO THAT INSTD+_!"

(quote may have been slightly overexaggerated)
player feedback?

Wellllll, it's certainly not constructive, but unfortunately, this hypothetical person is apparently a player, and is giving his or her (kinda worthless) input.

[Acanthus117]

Personally, I really just want Combat fixed first. Fundamental things in the game is what I prioritize.

[Vester]

I'm happy with adventurer mode in 40d and 31.03, minor bugs aside. I can still muck around to my heart's delight.

I don't play Fort mode, because I lack the requisite insanity.

[Acanthus117]

I just find that the undying everything bug is annoying at times.

I play both, but I lean towards Adventurer mode. Caverns are too fun.

[tastypaste]

I see nothing to be dissatisfied about. We have a free game with a load of new features that all work well except for a few bugs. On the whole I am loving the new version. The caverns are an infinite source of fun and the new military is amazing once you figure out how to work it. I'm not going to complain about a few bugs. It's not like this is a finished version, or the bugs are so terrible I can't play, and even if they were, the game is free (though it's still worth donating to support it and repay Toady for his hard work).

[Shurhaian]

Okay, people, seriously.

I don't mean to say that Toady doesn't deserve massive props for doing what he has.

But every time I see people say "stop complaining, it's free", I die a little inside. Vester has it right. It's free at least in part because Toady wants to know what works and what does not. We are, indeed, a vast community of testers. That the game is enjoyable to many in its current state speaks volumes for Toady's work, no doubts there; but that the game is given to us for free does not mean we must ignore its faults.

Some of these are bugs. The bug tracker is the place for those.

Some of these are intended but perhaps misguided. The suggestions forum is the place to put forward possible changes.

But in discussions here, Toady can get a better idea of how exasperating the community finds particular issues. And maybe even some things that people can't articulate enough to identify as issues on their own might get ferreted out through the discussion. Even if Toady doesn't read every single thread himself, people can bounce notions back and forth, get a feel for what bugs them collectively, and then maybe some overarching issue could be identified.

It also allows for discussion of misfeatures, whereas on the bug tracker these would likely get tagged "working as intended" and closed, without much actual impression of just how annoying that intended feature may be in its current state.

If the OP had been rude about it, that would be another matter. As it is, the only thing I'd note is that there is at least one thread devoted to collected complaints about the new version, and there are probably others that are less familiar to me.

So, really. Please don't get in the face of everyone who has something negative to say.


Speaking for myself, my biggest gripe in terms of bugs is the haphazard manner in which the military responds to commands - including the inability to tell them to stop chasing something without deactivating them entirely. Among the more severe but less universal bugs(barring the acid rain bug which should be bandage-fixed in 31.04 anyway) is the nobles screen - currently broken if the leader dies, and mayors don't work right.

I have yet to even try to deal with forgotten beasts, though I should probably outfit my military and do so; I always lag behind in arming them.

My biggest frustration in the design is probably that the caverns are a little too expansive. That there is no single vertical line from the surface to the depths that doesn't clip something(or almost none, anyway) is good in that you don't miss things, but it's awfully crowded down there. I would rather like to see some more limited caverns - perhaps the banks of an underground river. Some room to build my fortress without constantly needing to rewall. I don't want there to be nothing there; it's just that as it is, it might have gone a touch too far the other way.

Generating worlds takes a long time on my poor out-of-date machine, so tinkering with worldgen parameters is something that does not come readily to me. Some slightly-more-sensible defaults would be welcome.

[Spoonfeed]

My biggest frustration in the design is probably that the caverns are a little too expansive. That there is no single vertical line from the surface to the depths that doesn't clip something(or almost none, anyway) is good in that you don't miss things, but it's awfully crowded down there. I would rather like to see some more limited caverns - perhaps the banks of an underground river. Some room to build my fortress without constantly needing to rewall. I don't want there to be nothing there; it's just that as it is, it might have gone a touch too far the other way.

Init settings should take care of that, but it's still worth mentioning that the default init settings for caves/layers are annoying a lot of people.


my 2 cents: please put "minimum 10" to "minimum 1" for training/military purposes, buggers get quite suicidal on default training settings

[tastypaste]

I don't think anyone is saying we should ignore the faults in the game. But this topic was called "Post your dissatisfaction here" which sounds like a topic for the purpose of complaining. We can report bugs and suggest improvements without just complaining about our dissatisfaction (if any). And many of the things people complain about, such as caverns being too narrow and twisted, can be fixed by adjusting parameters in world gen. There's no reason to complain about something which you already have the ability to adjust on your own. Maybe it wasn't the original poster's intent, but this topic just sounds like a request for empty complaining to me, or maybe I misinterpreted it.

[Jackrabbit]

I'm dissatisfied with people who complain about a free game in alpha.

It's like the story of the two dwarven kids. One was always estatic, and the other was always miserable. Their parent went to the philosopher to ask how to fix the kids. The philosopher said "To fix your children, give the miserable one all of the finest toys you can afford. To the estatic one give a room full of cats. The parent did that, and looked in on the miserable one. He complained about the quality of the toys, then started tantruming and destroyed much of the furnature in his room. As the guards beat the child into a bloody hairball, the parent looked in on the estatic child. She found him surrounded by the cats and naming them. The child looked up and said, "I likes cats for their aloofness."
Which dwarf should we be like?

Whichever one won't destroy our FPS.

Anyway, as for people complaining about the game, I'm fine with that and I think that's okay. Like Vester said, it's in testing stage. We are testing it and should report faults.

What I don't like is people claiming the game is worthless or stupid or that it should be discarded for being worthless and stupid or that the UI needs to be far better than what it currently is* or similar, because yeah, it isn't even a beta yet and yeah, there is a lot of work to do.

So complain about aspects of it but don't complain about the game as a whole (i.e. this game is terrible!), because it's not done yet.

I've noticed nobody complaining about the game as a whole here. Well done!

*Note that if said person actually provides valuable input (ideas and the like) at the same time then there really isn't a problem and I admire them for trying to improve the game.

[Deathworks]

Hi!

Just to clarify, I was not adverse to player input either. If you look into the frustration thread, I have described the problems I have encountered myself. But I felt that dissatisfaction does really go beyond describing problems you have with playing this game, be they bugs or intended feature, and instead may encourage people to just go complaining.

I hope this can be settled peacefully and the thread used in a useful manner.

I think I mentioned this in the frustration thread, but I will re-iterate it here:
While there is nothing impeding my basic game play experience, the bug concerning cleaning surface buildings makes it impossible for me to construct surface fortresses, which makes me especially sad since I was looking forward to try to build a real little village for my dwarves. Thus, I hope that this problem will be solved eventually.

Other than that, I have really only encountered weird things that did not cause any problems. For instance, the extreme cargo the traders have aboard combined with my low-quality products mean that the elves need currently 2 months to pack up after they have embarked. While this is weird, it is no problem, though, since my humans and my elves are at peace, it seems, so the two caravans meeting each other is no problem.

:) :) :) :)

Actually, I may have found a solution for indoor cleaning - deactivate all other current jobs for your expedition leader when she is supposed to conduct the meeting with the liason. This last time I did that, she interrupted the negotiations several times to clean up patches of the big dining room they were in. If only she was so cleanly at other times and not when I want to her to finish those negotiations quickly (T_T)

Deathworks

[tastypaste]

If you really want to clean your fort, the DF Hack has a cleaning utility that instantly cleans the fort. It's a nice workaround until the bugs are fixed.

[Deathworks]

Hi!

Thank you for that information.

However, I am extremely paranoid about outside tools messing up things (given that this version is considered unstable, even more so), so I never use outside tools (I also avoid raw editing, having made the only exception when it was the only workaround for the cat bug ~ there is just so much I can bear).

Anyhow, I will instead focus on the normal fortress structure and explore how the caverns can be dealt with in my style.

Deathworks

[Dorfus]

I don't think anyone has a right to be dissatisfied. It's not a game built for your satisfaction - not yet. Sure it's free and sure it's all well and good to discuss bugs and give feedback but dissatisfaction implies that you are owed something by the developers and you are not. The game is free, it's not a final version and you damn well don't have to play it. 40d didn't have many bugs so if it's stress free gameplay you're after, try that. Either way you can't expect a 2 year release being pushed for by the fans to be bug free and you certainly can't expect to walk up to a free alpha product and say 'I demand satisfaction!'.

I have a proper fortress on 40d but I'm trying to get accustomed to the new version where I can. So many things have been improved on 40d it's almost like playing a new game.

[Jackrabbit]

Being dissatisfied about certain things =/= demanding satisfaction. It's perfectly all right to point out parts of the game you think need the most attention right now that aren't whopping big things like the UI that Toady's been working on for ages now.