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It's disgusting exploitation and degradation of a human being.

18 (20.9%)

It's pretty terrible.

14 (16.3%)

I don't care about it.

6 (7%)

Sort've funny.

15 (17.4%)

Absolutely hilarious.

21 (24.4%)

Other Opinion ( Please Post )

2 (2.3%)

Don't care / View poll

10 (11.6%)

Total Members Voted: 86

[G-Flex]

Now, (as a non-smoker), cannabis is popular, and less dangerous short term and long term for people, but will most likely be abused like alcohol anyway. Why cant it be taxed like cigarettes?

It could be. There's no specific reason why it could be.

And, I'm not exactly an expert on this kind of thing, but why the hell are people smoking pot? If you're looking for a chemical high, why not extract the THC or whatever active ingredient it is and place it in a pill or patch form? Then, you only have the negative affect of having a (dopamine?) overflow, as compared to that and the cancer causing agents of inhaling smoke.

This should be obvious, but extracting a single active ingredient from a plant is a lot harder and more expensive than just lighting it on fire. It would be easier to just use a vaporizer, which solves the problem anyway.

I'd support rational thinking in many of these cases. If you want a dopamine rush, wouldn't you rather want to take a pure substance in the least harmful way to get that affect? Why snort cocaine, or shoot up heroine, when you could get it in a patch, pill, or beverage?

Good luck making heroin pills that are that strong (or a cocaine patch, for that matter). Also, not everything is well-absorbed through the digestive tract. Method of delivery matters a lot here.

On an extreme case, why not literally change the way the brain interacts? I'm sure some futuristic surgery where you quite literally trim the brain like an overgrown shrub could prevent some stress, increase efficiency, and possibly create a steady flow of 'happy' thoughts, compared to waves of 'happy', 'neutral', and 'bad'. (Unless emotions and mental states don't work on purely chemical reactions)

This is an extremely terrifying prospect, if I'm reading you correctly. Human learning and experience require us to not feel good about absolutely everything. Negative emotions are productive more often than destructive.

[Kagus]

Well...  In moderation.  An overactive superego can seriously screw you up with terrifying ease.

I mean, look at me.  Whenever my mind happens upon some little memory I'm not particularly proud of, I physically convulse from the mental flagellation I get as punishment for not doing something as well as I could have.

I can tell you, it's not hugely productive.  And having your head do a sharp twitch at random intervals isn't exactly pleasant either.  It does help freak nearby people out though, and that's always good fun.


The way I understood it (and this is without even a single quotable or verifiable source), the only real "side effect" of dope was that certain chemical compounds wouldn't get flushed out of the system too quickly, so you'd end up with a concentration of them built up in your brain lining.  Only thing is, nobody was quite sure what the long-term effects of this stuff were, so it was impossible to say if this was a bad thing or entirely benign.

My uncle maintains that the "long term effect" of using marijuana is stupidity.  Considering the stoners I know, I'm...  Not entirely sure I agree or disagree with him.

More testing is required.

[G-Flex]

Well...  In moderation.  An overactive superego can seriously screw you up with terrifying ease.

Oh, of course. The opposite is also true, that's all I'm saying.

My uncle maintains that the "long term effect" of using marijuana is stupidity.  Considering the stoners I know, I'm...  Not entirely sure I agree or disagree with him.

More testing is required.

Well, smoking pot is an activity, and therefore can be a habit. Even if it's not physiologically addictive (in the same sense as nicotine, caffeine, opiates, etc.), something can certainly be habit-forming, and unhealthy habits/behavior patterns certainly exist. There are a ton of idiot stoners out there who care way too much about getting high, but there are also people who smoke pot who aren't like that. Of course, since it's illegal, the statistics will be in favor of those who do care about it way too much, since people who do something to a compulsive/unhealthy degree will be the first to break the law in order to do it, whereas a casual user might not want to risk it quite as much.

[Blargityblarg]

I think the reason marijuana is 'untaxable' is its ease of growing, innit?

Then again, alcohol's pretty bloody easy to make- maybe it's only legal 'cause of how long it's been around?

[Zombie]

I think the reason marijuana is 'untaxable' is its ease of growing, innit?

Then again, alcohol's pretty bloody easy to make- maybe it's only legal 'cause of how long it's been around?

Yes to first one, yes but with a catch to the second one.

Pretty much anyone can obtain seeds for their favourite cannabis plant type (there are multiple types and what it eats around it can change how good it is!) and grow one in their closet or basement. Cannabis is fairly hardy and can survive on minimal sunlight and even thrives around sunlamps. If it were legal, I would suggest attempting to crossbreed the THC-free strains of it (yes, non-narcotic cannabis. Think hemp-grade.) with various hard-to-grow or picky plants in an attempt to make them hardier. However, with restrictions on cannabis being what they are, that isn't very likely as people will assume you're trying to make some form of tomacco or something. I blame the simpsons.

Alcohol, on the other hand, is fairly easy to make but fairly hard to make right. You can make bathtub wine, but there's a chance it will seriously impair you in a negative way. Also, moonshine and other homemade brews can be very damaging to your body (mainly liver) if you are not careful and knowledgeable about what you are doing. When you go out and purchase an alcoholic beverage that you enjoy, you aren't really paying for the alcohol. You're paying for the production quality. Your friend can go out and get a microbrewery, but that doesn't mean he will make the best beer ever. If he's payed attention to instructions he can make some average beer. If he's done some homework and knows the science behind it, he can make even better beer. Cannabis is a lot easier to grow properly. Or, at least, a lot harder to grow improperly. With alcohol, a lot can go wrong to make a nasty brew... Or one that tastes good, but puts you in the hospital for liver failure later.

[Jackrabbit]

Really? I would have thought that damaging your short term memory and the possibility of triggering a mental illness if you have an adverse reaction would both be dangerous side effects. Neither are anywhere near as dangerous as other, harder drugs but it doesn't mean there aren't negative effects.

Neither are as dangerous as softer drugs, either. There's also no real evidence (ie. chemical basis) as to how marijuana would effect people in a way as to cause schizophrenia, just a load of conjecture and "could possibly maybe". I'd not even heard of the damaging short-term memory thing up to now.

Oh I know that insofar as any drug at all can be safe it's pretty damn safe. I've just got this unshakable fear of illegal drugs. This is not something I've been inclined to overcome. Why should I? I'm just missing out on a bit of pot.

[Pathos]

<SNIP>

The main trouble with cannabis in the UK ( ie. dangers ) is that it's impossible to get hashish resin, which is what most of the world mixes with their cannabis with. It stops 90% of the cancer dangers, and gives a better high. Or so I've heard, anyway.

Oh I know that insofar as any drug at all can be safe it's pretty damn safe. I've just got this unshakable fear of illegal drugs. This is not something I've been inclined to overcome. Why should I? I'm just missing out on a bit of pot.

You can err.. Stick it to the man? Anyway, it's a very interesting experience.

Also, apparently, in the 1980s, everyone used to go and grab Liberty Caps from fields and dry them themselves. The Liverpool council ( or at least the borough in which I live ) had a kneejerk reaction, and went about spraying EVERYWHERE ( fields, forests, etc ) with fungicide. It's pretty much the reason you don't see a lot of mushrooms about here.

Then again, considering the side effects of magic mushrooms are either a)feeling connected with everything and being happy and then subsequently living your life much calmer or b) becoming a paranoid schizophrenic, I can't really say I blame them.

[smigenboger]

Of all the illegals, I took an interest in those liberty caps, yet I haven't acted upon it. If it weren't for the absolutely horrible side effects, I would try LSD. From what I've research/been told, trying those caps once or twice doesn't have devastating long term effects, unless you're pre-existential crisis

[TheDarkJay]

On an extreme case, why not literally change the way the brain interacts? I'm sure some futuristic surgery where you quite literally trim the brain like an overgrown shrub could prevent some stress, increase efficiency, and possibly create a steady flow of 'happy' thoughts, compared to waves of 'happy', 'neutral', and 'bad'. (Unless emotions and mental states don't work on purely chemical reactions)

This is an extremely terrifying prospect, if I'm reading you correctly. Human learning and experience require us to not feel good about absolutely everything. Negative emotions are productive more often than destructive.

A woman once had surgery to treat depression where electrodes were hooked up to the pleasure centre of her brain. She had a series of buttons which she could press to make herself get a rush of pleasure from these various electrodes whenever she wanted.

Interestingly enough, they've done experiments with rats where they hooked them to such electrodes, and after some basic training of "this button gives food, this button gives pleasure", gave them the choice between the pleasure-regulating part of their brain being stimulated, and the food. The rats kept going for the pleasure option each time, eventually starving to death.

Another experiment with rats had them trained to run over a hall, hit a switch and run back and hit another switch to get pleasure. They then electrified the hall, and the rats still ran over it and back again to get their hit. In contract, the rats which weren't conditioned in such a way would not run over the electrified fence, even when there was food on the other side, and ultimately starved to death.

The "addiction" was more important than their own survival and basic needs.

Sad thing is, I'm willing to bet if we threw ethics out the window and did such an experiment with a real person, they'd not behave very differently from the rats...

Also, it's been shown drugs that directly fuck with the pleasure parts of the brain not only mess with them, they kill them. They actually get less active over time, which means the world and everything and everyone in it actually become less pleasurable to you the more you do the drug. That's a pretty terrifying prospect, in my opinion =P

[smigenboger]

Arguably, doesn't everything do that?

A food/adrenaline/sex/thought/videogame/movie/party binge makes everything seem boring in comparison, and get progressively more dull each passing day. Hopefully, you don't binge all those at once.

As part of the theoretical brain-trimming, perhaps, if you were to prevent the impotency of the brain's receptors, instead of upping the potency of the drug, it could work?

[Kagus]

Of all the illegals, I took an interest in those liberty caps, yet I haven't acted upon it. If it weren't for the absolutely horrible side effects, I would try LSD. From what I've research/been told, trying those caps once or twice doesn't have devastating long term effects, unless you're pre-existential crisis

It was my understanding that LSD really isn't as nasty as it's cracked up to be.  Basically the only concern would be the so-called "flashbacks", but those are actually caused by a pre-existing condition that was just triggered by the acid.  So, technically, it's not "really" the LSD doing... 

Yeah, kind of a lame argument.  But still, LSD flushes out of the system fairly quickly, is nearly impossible to overdose on (there was one recorded instance of death due to overdosing, and that was a guy who injected roughly 1,000,000 times the normal dosage directly into his veins), and is, so far as I know, harmless to the system.

Now, mind you, if you suddenly get the conviction that you can fly and try taking off from the conveniently-placed runway on top of your local apartment building, you'll probably be worse off for the wear.


LSD has been recorded as being a personality-altering drug, however.  That could probably be considered a fairly significant long-term effect.  But what's cool about that is that numerous acid-trippers have described the sensation of "seeing" their identity laid out in front of them as bricks of some sort, the literal building blocks of that person's mind.  They then are given free reign to rearrange these blocks as they see fit, changing and shaping themselves into whatever they choose.

Now that's gotta be a pretty cool trip.  And if it actually has any bearing on what's really happening, then it goes straight from pretty cool to freaking awesome.  The prospect of just being able to "shuffle" the mind into an entirely or even just slightly different personality is wildly interesting to me.

You can imagine why this stuff was popular in the field of psychiatry...

[smigenboger]

Drinking had lead to some very good thinking sessions, although pot didn't at all. For LSD, a friend's mother talked about how a co-worker did LSD that caused permanent damage, and as a dishwasher at his job, he'd have full on conversations with the dishes as he 'petted them clean'. I don't really worry about jumping out a window, I'm sure even if you're tripping, you still know it's a subjective solipsism. Hopefully.

I'm not sure how it works, but I'd assume it's just another way of flooding your system with dopamine. The potential cause for damage is what keeps me away.

On another note, is the legal plant salvia worth trying out? Effects? Worth just smoking other green things instead?

[G-Flex]

I don't really worry about jumping out a window, I'm sure even if you're tripping, you still know it's a subjective solipsism. Hopefully.

Sorry, but hallucination doesn't exactly work that way. Not usually, anyway. Even if you know you're hallucinating, you won't necessarily be able to distinguish what's real from what isn't.

[smigenboger]

That certainly ups the ante. I had an acquaintance who tried a hit of acid, then proceeded to mellowly play xbox with some other kids. Maybe the affect wore off before I got there or something. Anyway, my next adventure would be trying kava, which I believe to be legal in the US and Fiji. It's nothing strong

[Kagus]

Different people react differently to LSD.  Some go charging through the halls thinking they're in Candyland, others just sit around and see letters in furniture.  Depending on your personality, you may be seeing multicolored pterodactyls rocketing around the room, or you'll just notice that the wall has ripples in it.  It's difficult to say.