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Author Topic: Away.  (Read 5994 times)

Grakelin

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Re: Away.
« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2010, 02:17:44 am »

The thing about literary analysis is that you don't get marks for being right, you get marks for the process and the foundations of what you've said.

If Saved By the Bell was a Christian allegory for you, then it is not 'wrong'. There is no right or wrong, just stronger or weaker choices.

It's hard to explain the difference, but after you've seen a few analyses/performances/whatevers, you will start to understand.

Gah.  Stop.  Just... Stop.  I know that in the seedy areas of the internet you frequent it's perfectly fine to make death threats about people you haven't met, but it was far over the line to look up his real life address and start stalking him.  Seriously, that's just creepy.  And the long list of things you're planning on doing... just wrong.

I believe I've made my point.

I didn't understand at first, and then when I did, I giggled a bit.

You've made your point, but as Jackrabbit said, the trick is to validate it.

You made a weaker choice. :(
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I am have extensive knowledge of philosophy and a strong morality
Okay, so, today this girl I know-Lauren, just took a sudden dis-interest in talking to me. Is she just on her period or something?

The Mad Engineer

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Re: Away.
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2010, 10:52:53 pm »

Why can't the poem be both about the horrors of war, and the awakening of a women's sexuality?  Surely one can see the obvious undertones of excitement contrasted with morbid awe at the sheer power being launched upon the conciousness of the audience!  The destructive nature of the "light" mentioned in the last few stanszas can be interpreted as the annihilation of a city, or of rational thought at the edge of orgasm.  The author is trying to convey the message that the act of sex is about power, as much as warfare.

Supermikhail

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Re: Away.
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2010, 03:04:36 pm »

Uh, the OP here.

I've recently discovered that for me it's very important to know who are the people that are behind my favourite works (be it music, film or literature), so I thought it'd be right for me to reveal finally why the hell I made this thread and what my previous post means.

Well, the answer is kind of simple. That passage was intended by me as an introduction for a story that I was going to write, and didn't have any meaning beyond a simple recounting of some event in the story. The way it was posted was really an experiment, and I hope no one is going to have anything against me for being made a participant of it against their will. The goal of the experiment was to find out how much attention a lone, unexplained (and hopefully, mysterious) thread could attract.

Well, I take the results of the experiment to be very promising, although I acknowledge that a large part of the discussion wasn't about the first post. But in any case, based on these results I've got a suggestion to any forumites that might be intending to post their literary works for critique on the forums. If you see promise in your creation, do not add any explanation to it. And partially because, having read a number of threads where authors seek criticism, and having made a couple myself, I suspect that most authors sound just whiny this way. After all, if you're looking for critique from other people, you are supposed to have found no flaws with your work yourself, or at least no ways to correct it. It's good enough for you, so have courage to show it as a fruit of creativity and toil (also, critique as the intended purpose takes much away from the immersion, I think, and your readers might find flaws where otherwise they would have slipped by, consumed by the narrative).

That was my one point. The other point is who I am who dared to impose his riddles on you with his thread.

It'd be easier to answer it, relating the answers to some of your opinions on the meaning of the first post.
As I said, the passage (or, as some have called it, a poem, although it was not composed as such, even if it may share some traits of structure with poetry) didn't have any meaning beyond narration. And so, no sexuality. I think I wouldn't even dare to bring such matters in my writing here. I'm not a man as free with it as some, probably due to some extent to my provincial Russian origins, where I like to think we're still a bit medieval. And in large part due to my religious issues. Until a couple of years ago I, having been brought up as an orthodox christian, had a big torment within me, as I tried to bring together my religion and my body. In the end, the latter won. But even if now I try to have sexuality in my speech it usually sounds awkward. To it adds the fact that I've had no success with women. So, you wouldn't get very mature writing if I wanted to bring up sexuality.

Another opinion was about war. Well, other things I brought from my religious torment and other experiences are some pessimism, fatalism and misanthropy (or people, probably, would call them that). So, I do not say that violence is the answer, but on the other hand - and it could probably make me very unpopular here - I think that WWII was over half a century ago, and if it were Middle Ages we would already be commemorating the end of some plague in place of WWII's end; that people die every day and despite all the wars we get more and more populous, to the point of a crisis; that in the end everything turns to dust, and dust rules the universe, not man, and such small matters as wars do not make even ripples on it.

So, no, I wouldn't push my opinion on war strongly in my writing.

But now, what? The passage has no subtle meaning, no magic? No. I just thought the wording, the style would catch the reader's eye, entice him or her to read further, I felt that the reader needs something unusual. Yet, I've found that the story itself was quite ordinary, and what's worse, didn't fit my current opinions. It was a thing that I made up as a teenager, and thought it was quite epic. No I think that epic is not enough.

So, I'm leaving the passage the way it is, and strip it of its further story... See? If you liked it, I give it to you as a present. If it fits well onto your anti-war banner, let the cries be of innocent civilians. If you're planning a small-scale sexual revolution, let the flaming spear... be whatever you... desire. Even in my mind I'm stripping it of its background, so it may be that crystal-clear stream of thought some in this thread have wished it to be.

Anyway, this is the explanation, and I hope I've made piecewise happy with it.
Now I'm tired and need to sleep.

P.S. Well, that final bit went a little out of hand. Got a little too self-congratulatory, it seems. But you've gotta finish on a high note.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 09:01:45 am by Supermikhail »
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Grakelin

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Re: Away.
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2010, 08:09:32 pm »

I'm not going to read your post past the first three sentences, because I feel like whatever value we got out of it is enough that we don't need to hear it. I also believe that an artist should never reveal the meaning of his work, if he can help it (i.e. if you're like me, you study an artform in university and they make you explain it to them whether you like it or not. Also, you have to make sure your group pariah doesn't say something all of you will regret), as this diminishes the work a bit.

Actually, I just can't bring myself to read that massive wall of unparagraphed text.
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I am have extensive knowledge of philosophy and a strong morality
Okay, so, today this girl I know-Lauren, just took a sudden dis-interest in talking to me. Is she just on her period or something?

Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: Away.
« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2010, 09:09:03 pm »

 i read it a few days ago, i just couldn't bring myself to write a worthy response.
 i don't think explaining a work diminishes it, or at least, i don't think that diminishing a work by explaining it is a bad thing. after all, this was an experiment, and an application of a a scientific method to art, and i respect that. Sometimes one can't value an individual work of art too much, if one can sacrifice it to increase his understanding of aesthetic mechanics.

Grakelin

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Re: Away.
« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2010, 09:20:21 pm »

In contrast, I find the work of Robert Wilson to be extremely influential as a theatre practitioner, and he has never explained himself to anybody.
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I am have extensive knowledge of philosophy and a strong morality
Okay, so, today this girl I know-Lauren, just took a sudden dis-interest in talking to me. Is she just on her period or something?

Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: Away.
« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2010, 09:34:17 pm »

think of this as part of the research to make a true work of art, or not as art at all, just a little exploration of this forum's mind

piecewise

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Re: Away.
« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2010, 02:37:43 am »

Technically that makes the Holy Bible the best book ever because no one can tell what it really means and god certainly doesn't seem eager to spoil it.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 02:44:44 am by piecewise »
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Grakelin

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Re: Away.
« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2010, 03:26:04 am »

It's not cause and effect.

EDIT: Though, if God started telling people what the Bible meant, people wouldn't bother reading it anymore.
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I am have extensive knowledge of philosophy and a strong morality
Okay, so, today this girl I know-Lauren, just took a sudden dis-interest in talking to me. Is she just on her period or something?

piecewise

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Re: Away.
« Reply #54 on: May 17, 2010, 03:34:54 am »

It's not cause and effect.

EDIT: Though, if God started telling people what the Bible meant, people wouldn't bother reading it anymore.
The idea that not telling us what something means making it better is just a "gatsby's light" style illusion. When you're never quite sure what it means then that makes it nebulous and potentially much more meaningful. When you consign percise meaning then it becomes ordinary and boring, loses the magic so to say. I don't think that devalues a work, just might kill some of it's mistique because people are stupid and don't like being told anything directly.

Grakelin

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Re: Away.
« Reply #55 on: May 17, 2010, 03:36:35 am »

Nice argument.

It would work better if you had realized that 'explaining things diminishes something' is not the same as 'not explaining it makes it better'.
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I am have extensive knowledge of philosophy and a strong morality
Okay, so, today this girl I know-Lauren, just took a sudden dis-interest in talking to me. Is she just on her period or something?

piecewise

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Re: Away.
« Reply #56 on: May 17, 2010, 04:03:00 am »

Nice argument.

It would work better if you had realized that 'explaining things diminishes something' is not the same as 'not explaining it makes it better'.
Not trying to say that it makes it better, just that people assume that it IS better if its unexplained because they attach meaning that may not be there. In fact I'm pretty sure I said that the idea that not explaining something makes it better isn't correct while then asserting that explaining something doesn't really degrade it either. 

In my defense of what I assume was poor wording  earlier, I really don't care.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 04:18:07 am by piecewise »
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Dave Mongoose

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Re: Away.
« Reply #57 on: May 17, 2010, 05:15:38 am »

Actually, I just can't bring myself to read that massive wall of unparagraphed text.

It is paragraphed (but it doesn't have empty lines between the paragraphs)...

I read it, and I think it's interesting to know the personal and cultural background of the writer.

Freudian psychology would suggest that some of the images were subconsciously selected, but that's just a theory.

Sex and Violence (and Fear) are linked to adrenaline, and are very 'old' emotional drives in terms of human development. Because of this link it's quite easy for almost any violent motif to be interpretted sexually.
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The Architect

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Re: Away.
« Reply #58 on: May 17, 2010, 05:23:58 am »

And how was he supposed to know you studied English in College?
QFT

Certainly not by the writing in those posts. Homonyms. Look it up.
(not directed at Jackrabbit, in case that's not clear)

It's amazing that someone can post a few lines, with no explanation or context, and Bay12 can turn it into something interesting. Or rather, Pathos has done so.
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Dwarf Fortress: where blunders never cease.
The sigs topic:
Oh man, this is truly sigworthy...
Oh man. This is truly sig-worthy.

Supermikhail

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Re: Away.
« Reply #59 on: May 17, 2010, 11:29:53 am »

Should I... Ah, I already did.

Anyway, first. I'm aware of this rule of Internet grammar about blank paragraphs, but I was kind of caught in the flow of thoughts and forgot about it. Corrected now.

Second. I've mentioned it in my previous post, but it seems that I need to state it explicitly.

That explanation was a way to be fair with you. For me, knowing the author, his experience behind a work and his intentions, is a natural part of appreciation of his creation. Partially because the personalities and the life stories of my favourite authors (or musicians) are as interesting as their works. Partially because this way I can insure that there is some substance to the piece... I just don't want to read or listen to something mindless, made without effort and care... I wish I could be more clear.
Well, and you see, if it's important for me, it would be kind of hypocritical to hide from you the details behind the first post.

Third. I really must thank Pathos for making a first reply. ;)
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