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[Thief^]

You trade the stone, as masterpiece crafts. Armok knows that people get enough moody stonecrafters...

[Psieye]

Also i understand that it is rather difficult to avoid starting in a dangerous place in DF or i have REALLY shit-luck. My first attempt at a fortress was undone by those masters of genocide, otherwise know as carps, completely killing off my party of dwarves when they tried to drink from the rather conveniently placed river. Attempt #2 they somehow unearthed demons at ground level and were all killed. And attempt #3 they were burned to death by a dragon. So i ask the forum, Is this a common thing or do i have garbage luck?

While learning, embark on brooks not rivers. Brooks have all the good points of rivers (infinite source of water, fishing once the current fishing bug is fixed in v0.31.04) with none of the bad points (carp and other big fish, drowning). Brooks are weird in that they're a floor tile on the surface so you can walk over them, yet still get water out of them by channeling next to them.

The dragon and demons are just bad luck yeah. And as mentioned earlier, gathering plants is an excellent source of food/booze at the start - especially as once you brew what your dwarves harvest, you can farm them and above-ground farms don't need irrigation. Just be sure to farm the edible plants (e.g. prickle berries and wild strawberries). It's also recommended you fish in murky pools for turtles (don't forget to prepare them in a fishery, then store the results in stockpiles) - then you have a stock of shells in case they come into demand (moods frequently demand them).

[Teivel]

I'm something of a noob myself and so i'm extremely proud that i finally managed to get my head around farming, albeit with a very simple solution as some of those here have already suggested.

I embarked on a Brook with lots of trees, perfect embark site so far as i can tell.

Irrigation is as follows.



I can open the floodgate closer to the brook to fill the resevoir area. I can then close it and open either of the innermost floodgates to flood the large room. The water will disperse across this area until it reaches a depth of 1/7 at which point it will eventually evaporate. The doors that seperate it from the staircase prevent water accidently flowing out of the room. The associated levers can be seen by the staircase.

This setup allows you to unleashe pre-measured quantities of water onto your farms quite reliably. Hope that doesn't look too bad for a noob effort.

[Dekon]

^
Fancy and elaborate, but you only need to irrigate once..   It's pretty, and realistic, I suppose, but a single floodgate after a straight line would've done the same.  The reservoir doesn't really have a necessary function in that scheme. 

Most of my irrigation just comes from digging into a murky pool and letting it spill out, then resealing the pool afterwards.  Quick, easy, gets me started in all of a couple minutes.

[Teivel]

^
Fancy and elaborate, but you only need to irrigate once..   It's pretty, and realistic, I suppose, but a single floodgate after a straight line would've done the same.  The reservoir doesn't really have a necessary function in that scheme. 

I only need to do it once? well you learn something new everyday, here i was thinking it would eventually be neccessary again eventually. Like i said i'm a noob and this is my first fort. The concept struck me as a way to minimise danger to my miners and maximise my control over the water flow.

Even if it is overkill, i think the experience and concept may be useful in designing traps, barriers or execution zones that all the masters seem to have built into their designs. heaven help me when i have my first shot and using pumps or the controlled use of magma (haven't encountered any yet but the repution preceeds it...)

[Dekon]

Oh of course.  Not faulting you for the elaborate, just pointing out that it likely wasn't that necessary.  I guess your design does prevent -too- much water from escaping.. Like.. If you flipped the lever, then your mind blanked and you went up to make a sandwich - then returned to a flooded fort.  So really your design does prevent user error, to some degree.

And besides, a lot of people around here applaud overzealous and complex attempts at things (moments ago read something about dropping goblins 100+ z levels to see them splat at incredible velocities...  Only in DF.)

[Teivel]

Like.. If you flipped the lever, then your mind blanked and you went up to make a sandwich - then returned to a flooded fort.

And besides, a lot of people around here applaud overzealous and complex attempts at things (moments ago read something about dropping goblins 100+ z levels to see them splat at incredible velocities...  Only in DF.)

Ah, flooding my fort...i'm totally paranoid about that after seeing just how awesome and vicious the fluid mechanics are in this game, All the sleeping quaters are several levels down from the farms, as is 95% of the fort...a flood would be, what is it they call it around here..."Fun"

I have a noob question of my own at this point, your death pit idea brought it up.

I've got a steel industry up and running to outfit a squad of 5 dwarfs with axes and the full panapoly of war. I'm quite happy with how it's working, i have a furnaces churning out charcoal 24/7 while three dwarfs smelt and smith. I embarked on a heavily forrested map so i've been able to do with while cranking out beds, barrels, bins etc non stop. I'm sparing my coal and lignite for wheni need to seal up the fortress and opperate internally for a period of time.

I have elves on the map... I understand they will have something of a problem with my clearfelling (but hey, it all grows back eventually right)

How does one deal with elves, how far can i push them without war and what am i in for if i don't back down?

[Dekon]

If I remember correctly involving elves, what matters is how much wood you have stockpiled during their arrival.  You could chop down trees like mad, but as long as it's all used up by the time they get there, they won't care.

And honestly, I've -rarely- had this become a problem.  In my entire time of playing DF, I've been warned about it a couple times by elves, but they've never done anything.  The only time I've ever been attacked by elves is when their caravans got attacked by ambushers and killed.   They apparently blame me for the fact that they walk around with no protection and come to trade their silly little crap with me and expect me to keep them safe.

Regardless..  Not having a lot of first hand experience (as I've never pushed them hard enough to start a war.. I really should, but their new ability to trade foreign/rare creatures is intriguing, and has delayed their death), I'm pretty sure all elves wear wooden armor and wooden weapons.  So..  They should be a slaughterfest.  I'm not sure if they bring creatures with them to fight now, but even then I doubt they'd give steel dwarves much trouble.  Bows might be an issue, but even then..eh.. wooden arrows..

Like I said though, it's what's in your stockpile that counts, and they'll warn you if they're upset.

Also, there's special fun stuff you find eventually that makes lignite/coal much less necessary...  Still a couple necessary for steel, but...

[culwin]

Oh of course.  Not faulting you for the elaborate, just pointing out that it likely wasn't that necessary.

Actually, isn't his reservoir useful for farm expansion?
I mean, he can build another big farm area, hook it up to the reservoir with another flood gate, and quickly flood his new farm area...
His reservoir can keep being filled for each time he wants to expand... and grates can be added later if he wants water below...

[Teivel]

If I remember correctly involving elves, what matters is how much wood you have stockpiled during their arrival.  You could chop down trees like mad, but as long as it's all used up by the time they get there, they won't care.

Allright, i might switch over to a JIT system of wood use although the micro would be annoying. I can pull it off if i'm still burning it at a predigious rate but want to keep the tree folk onside.

I'm pretty sure all elves wear wooden armor and wooden weapons.  So..  They should be a slaughterfest.  I'm not sure if they bring creatures with them to fight now, but even then I doubt they'd give steel dwarves much trouble.  Bows might be an issue, but even then..eh.. wooden arrows..

Wooden battlegear? are you kidding me?

The elves don't seem to have any objection with buying  metal products, i figured they might turn up with iron or other "natural" (non alloyed) metal gear. Failing that i figure obsidian is a natural weapons grade material, if somewhat brittle. Obsidian arrowheads and blades would be a step up on wood at the very least.
Heck, i figured maybe bone as well. Take a dead animal, tann the skin into leather and sew bone onto it, then layer leather ontop of it again to cuishon blunt strikes...

Wood...

So how does wooden gear perform against steel? My Dwarves have, as far as i can tell, every body location you can cover, covered with steel? Most is -Platemail- or +platemail+ quality. I produced the axes last so most of my dwarves have ++ quality although my squad leader has a **. I'm assuming that makes a difference. My intuition here says that even an unskilled axeman clad in steel would be able to beat someone clad and wielding wood but i don't have enough experience with game combat to know one way or another.

--


As for the Reservoir, it will certainly allow for the farms to be expanded eventually. Right now i'm working on slightly enlarging it and linking it up with floodgates and grates to a new enterance to my fort. I figure if i dig an underground enterence area, with trade depots and the like, corrrectly then link it to the surface with ramps it'll let me phase out my door based old enterence. I figure i'll be able to draw any attackers/caravans/whatever in, close the exit gates and then flood the room to drown them. I take it this is fairly standard practice and a sound idea?

[Psieye]

There's a reason Elves are called 'hippies' around here. They have no metal skill whatsoever - they buy it from you as it's an alien thing to them and they appreciate it. They have no stone skill either - again they buy it from you as it's a foreign item they can't produce that's useful or appreciable. Elves don't build any constructions of their own - their "towns" are just forests with named trees. They're against killing stuff so they don't do leather or bone either (though they can buy these from you without raising a fuss, but it'd make them uncomfortable deep inside). How they shape their war gear out of wood is an elven mystery - especially how they do it within their ethics of never chopping down trees.

So yes, Elves will come at you with wooden armour, wooden weapons and wooden arrows. Catch is, they come at you in stealth after the "we're under siege!" announcement. But I've never gotten to war with Elves over having too much wood in my stockpiles before. They get pissed off, but it's not enough to push them over the edge - just say you'll agree to whatever wood quota they set and I don't think they really check whether you stick to it or not.

[Corona688]

Why not try aboveground farming first?  Gather aboveground plants until you've got enough useful seed stock.  That way getting your underground farm plots going isn't a life-or-death situation.

The easiest way to irrigate is if you have an aquifer.  Dig down until you hit the aquifer, make a 10x10 room just above the aquifer, channel drains at one end and a 1-tile source at the other.  Build a screw pump pumping from that source into the room(need to build blocks, corkscrew, pipe section at a carpenter's) and run the pump manually a few seconds.  pow, mud.

[Redem]

^
Fancy and elaborate, but you only need to irrigate once..   It's pretty, and realistic, I suppose, but a single floodgate after a straight line would've done the same.  The reservoir doesn't really have a necessary function in that scheme.

Not necessarily true, I build a well above mine afterwards, and I can use it to expand my farms, create a tree farm, or anything else I need water for. The closed of floodgate keeps pressure from being a problem, so I build the well down a few levels inside my base, away from the surface. Meaning I can channel out a moat without having to dodge farms just below the surface.

[Sphalerite]

How they shape their war gear out of wood is an elven mystery - especially how they do it within their ethics of never chopping down trees.

I always figured that while the trees are alive, the elves politely ask the trees to grow their branches in the shape of swords, armor, arrows, and such.  Then after the tree dies of natural causes, the elves hold a funeral for it, then break off the wooden weapons and armor and use them.