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[Xgamer4]

SirHoneyBadger, while you have some good points, I can't help but think they're all being covered up with somewhat ridiculous focus on rather tiny issues.

You're right that they're should probably be more done to differentiate between 40d and 31.*, but that's currently being worked on and there isn't really an automatic cure-all for it. I also agree that some form of progress report would definitely be beneficial, even if all it is is a simple counter saying something like x/y pages in the 2010 namespace are still empty of content.

But instead of offering suggestions to these two things, you're complaining that the "Last Modified On" date is at the very, very bottom of the page. That's quite literally the unwritten convention for most of the internet. That's where anyone with any major experience on the internet will instinctively look to find that type of information. We can't arbitrarily move it even if there was a good reason to, because then we've managed to confuse everyone, instead of just the people who would have to look, anyway.

No offense intended, but you basically seem to be missing the forest for the trees. And in this case it's not even a particularly ill tree you've chosen to focus on.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Xgamer4: You have a point, but it's not the date being on the bottom that's the confusing part. The "familiarity with the internet" you mention is atleast somewhat nullified by the Categories line not being at the bottom, where it is in most other Wikis that I'm familiar with, including Wikipedia.

I can certainly offer suggestions for a Progress page, but then, I'm the one who suggested it in the first place, so shouldn't that could as "offering a suggestion"?

The other issue, and I quote, is "currently being worked on and there isn't really an automatic cure-all for it." I don't know what I'm supposed to add to that, other than whatever suggestions come to me.

I'm trying to help. If you want to complain about the suggestions I'm offering, then complain to the guy that didn't think I was suggesting enough.

This is just getting pulled more and more into "unwinnable argument" territory.

[Tarran]

*Note: author of this post doesn't really give a crap what anyone thinks about this post, just that you take it into consideration.

Mason11987 wanted you to actually add good,solid suggestions. "You said you'd offer more concrete suggestions.  You haven't offered one." And I still haven't seen one good one yet. Solid maybe, but good, no.

So far all you've suggested is unneeded fluff, everything you've suggested is already in the wiki, or completely unneeded. And you're trying to blame it on Mason11987 for your poor suggestions*.

It's like you are replacing magnetite with hematite*. It's unneeded, adds more work, and basically gives no gain.

So please, come up with a good, needed suggestion that isn't already in the wiki if you want to suggest something. Maybe then I'll agree with you. So come back with your adamantine suggestions and then we'll see what I think*.

I'm done checking this post to make it nice. Really, get over it's meanness.

[SirHoneyBadger]

*Note: author of this post doesn't really give a crap what anyone thinks about this post, just that you take it into consideration.

Mason11987 wanted you to actually add good,solid suggestions. "You said you'd offer more concrete suggestions.  You haven't offered one." And I still haven't seen one good one yet. Solid maybe, but good, no.

So far all you've suggested is unneeded fluff, everything you've suggested is already in the wiki, or completely unneeded. And you're trying to blame it on Mason11987 for your poor suggestions*.

It's like you are replacing magnetite with hematite*. It's unneeded, adds more work, and basically gives no gain.

So please, come up with a good, needed suggestion that isn't already in the wiki if you want to suggest something. Maybe then I'll agree with you. So come back with your adamantine suggestions and then we'll see what I think*.

I'm done checking this post to make it nice. Really, get over it's meanness.

I'm sorry, is any of that supposed to make any kind of sense?

[Xgamer4]

Xgamer4: You have a point, but it's not the date being on the bottom that's the confusing part. The "familiarity with the internet" you mention is atleast somewhat nullified by the Categories line not being at the bottom, where it is in most other Wikis that I'm familiar with, including Wikipedia.

I can certainly offer suggestions for a Progress page, but then, I'm the one who suggested it in the first place, so shouldn't that could as "offering a suggestion"?

The other issue, and I quote, is "currently being worked on and there isn't really an automatic cure-all for it." I don't know what I'm supposed to add to that, other than whatever suggestions come to me.

I'm trying to help. If you want to complain about the suggestions I'm offering, then complain to the guy that didn't think I was suggesting enough.

This is just getting pulled more and more into "unwinnable argument" territory.

That's the thing. It's not different between the wikis. Top is wikipedia, bottom is the dwarf fortress wiki.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As for the rest, yes, that counts as a suggestion, but it's less-than-useless without any ideas of what it should look like or what you'd want to see there. He could write a counter that randomly generates a number between 1 and 100, then sticks it in a nicely formatted box that claims the random numbers is the percent completed, and he's done what you've requested. It's an absurd example, but it gets the point across. We don't know what you want or how to implement it, so the best that can be done is for us to say "yep, that sounds like a good idea", and then leave it there.

As for what's already being worked on, yeah, that's legitimate. But it's not really fair to complain about it when it's already being worked on and you have no suggestions and nothing to add.

And yep, we're in "unwinnable argument" territory.

[Tarran]

I'm sorry, is any of that supposed to make any kind of sense?

Ok, mind me for being blunt here but WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?! Are you trying to enrage me?

"Mason11987 wanted you to actually add good,solid  suggestions. "You said you'd offer more concrete suggestions.  You haven't offered one." And I still haven't seen one good one yet. Solid maybe, but good, no." >Make good, actually needed suggestions.

"So far all you've suggested is unneeded fluff, everything you've suggested is already in the wiki, or completely unneeded. And you're trying to blame it on Mason11987 for your poor suggestions*." >Stop trying to blame your lack of good suggestions on Mason.

"It's like you are replacing magnetite with hematite*. It's unneeded, adds more work, and basically gives no gain." >If you don't understand this, you are an idiot.

"So please, come up with a good, needed suggestion that isn't already in the wiki if you want to suggest something. Maybe then I'll agree with you. So come back with your adamantine suggestions and then we'll see what I think*." > Think then suggest again If your suggestions are good, then I might agree with you.

[nichaey]

Back on Topic.

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=DF2010:Magnetite What do we think of this sidebar?

The object data needs to fill up that large empty space in the center instead of being on the side like that, or be anywhere other than where it is now. But otherwise it looks nice.

I agree with Tarran. Stop putting stuff in the sidebar. It's pointless. No one looks there, and it's not like the center of that page is absolutely teeming with information. Put the In the real world box in the center of the page and open by default.

Honestly, do we even need the box? It looks nice, but what's wrong with just putting the information under a "In the real world:" heading?

this, and I do believe the only argument against this is that people might not read the header and confuse it for DF information, right?
What if we kept it in the same dropbox thing, border and all, and moved it in its entirety.
That way it's easily distinguishable, but more noticable.

[G-Flex]

I think the obvious solution is just to move the object-information and real-world boxes at the bottom and in the middle, but slightly less wide than the main box text. You know, exactly like the object-information boxes were before. Anything else I've seen looks either ugly or extremely frustrating to read/work with.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Tarran, I'm not going to bother deconstructing your lack of argument, because it would just be wasted time. I'm just going to go ahead and ignore you until such time as you're able to participate in the conversation in a more useful way.


What do you guys think of the color-coding option, as opposed to the boxes?

[Tarran]

SirHoneyBadger, I can't even think of a insult. Really. Without me looking like a asshole. You're not worth winning this argument over.



Now back on topic.

I think the obvious solution is just to move the object-information and real-world boxes at the bottom and in the middle, but slightly less wide than the main box text. You know, exactly like the object-information boxes were before. Anything else I've seen looks either ugly or extremely frustrating to read/work with.

This, this is how it should be. The center is completely empty, the sidebar is stuffed like a stuffed turkey. I mean, just look at the raws. Jeez.

[Draco18s]

Come on guys.  This is pointless.

[G-Flex]

What do you guys think of the color-coding option, as opposed to the boxes?

I would find it irritating.

I think the obvious solution is just to move the object-information and real-world boxes at the bottom and in the middle, but slightly less wide than the main box text. You know, exactly like the object-information boxes were before. Anything else I've seen looks either ugly or extremely frustrating to read/work with.

This, this is how it should be. The center is completely empty, the sidebar is stuffed like a stuffed turkey. I mean, just look at the raws. Jeez.

Yeah, the raws are way too horizontal to place in a little vertically-oriented sidebar (I shouldn't have to scroll horizontally to see them all when there's a better option) and there's already a sidebar in the infobox, which serves its function pretty well. The only real reason to make the "factual" box narrow is to prevent it from getting an overflow of data shoved into it, which is more of an editing/policy problem.

[Tarran]

Come on guys.  This is pointless.

Then be on topic! Be pointful!

(Yes, I'm happy, just got back from major wiki editing, and I'm happy with with what I've done)

[Draco18s]

Come on guys.  This is pointless.

Then be on topic! Be pointful!

Actually, the point of my post was to flag for moderator review.  Its easier to flag myself in a thread with trouble than to find a particularly "combusting" post.

[Tarran]

Ahh, makes sense. Though there's always the (very extremely tiny) risk that you get in trouble for what others say.

Yeah, looking over my old posts I kinda realized that I just should have just ignored my urge to argue with SirHoneyBadger. Well, what can I say other than sorry and blargh?