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[axus]

The difficulty in the old DF was the interface.  The difficulty in the new DF is the interface AND the bugs.  I care about the game and want it to be successful and relevant.  It won't be at this rate.  I'm not angry at all, just disappointed.

A lot of people clamored for something, anything, to be released.  I'll give you credit for not being one of those people.  Basically, you want the game to stop adding features, fix the bugs, and start adding a "real" interface. 

I think that making a release directly contributes to fixing the bugs.  He could have released after he fixed all the obvious bugs, but there's no benefit to that.  We'd still be waiting the same amount of time for a bug-free version.  This way, we can all work on finding the non-obvious bugs, and have some fun in the process.

Toady has been open about his development schedule.  Years of features will be added before the interface gets redone.  I like new features, so I'm not disappointed.  I know that doesn't help you, but maybe you can feel happy for us.

[Mindmaker]

I'ts really annoying.
I know habe to start a new fort because my militia commander died of an infection and now the military is even more bugged then before.

I hope there will be a fix soon.

[elthar]

the topic starter has his point. everyone's claiming the version is bugged and just needs patching and fixing, but the truth is that any actual testers look out not only for technical bugs and features that do not work properly, but do the gameplay testing also. and no gameplay testing could be done with only "everything's great!" opinions, sometimes happen "the gameplay should be rebalanced here and there" opinions which help make game overall better. so saying there's nothing wrong except for bugs IS wrong if we want a better game after all.

frankly, what i don't like is the new site finder - exactly, that it won't allow me to look for the old familiar features like magma, bottomless pit and underground stuff. heck, it looks pretty useless now, as no matter what i do it only allows me to search for a river, which i can do singlehandedly without the stupid finder... that just does not feels right. and screw the military, i couldn't even resize the game window, while 40d* allowed that! so what i saw in the first 5 minutes of gameplay was that the new version is worse than the old one, and i really do hope it was only bugged like that, not changed like "no more resizing windows and magma pipe searching in the site finder for you forever mwahahah!"

[Hyndis]

You're playing a FREE TO PLAY game that is an ALPHA BUILD.

Why are you complaining? 

Donations are of course welcome, but the game is completely free to play. You're complaining because you were given something for free and you don't like it.

So...don't play it? Its free. Its not like you lost anything.



I'm very glad Toady did finally release the new version. Brings a huge number of fresh eyes to look at the game and to find all of the bugs he missed. Also I fully expect that the first 1-2 months after release will be bugfixing. 40D is stable, but its also called 40D for a reason. 40A, 40B, and 40C were loaded with bugs.

[Hyndis]

frankly, what i don't like is the new site finder - exactly, that it won't allow me to look for the old familiar features like magma, bottomless pit and underground stuff. heck, it looks pretty useless now, as no matter what i do it only allows me to search for a river, which i can do singlehandedly without the stupid finder... that just does not feels right. and screw the military, i couldn't even resize the game window, while 40d* allowed that! so what i saw in the first 5 minutes of gameplay was that the new version is worse than the old one, and i really do hope it was only bugged like that, not changed like "no more resizing windows and magma pipe searching in the site finder for you forever mwahahah!"

The site finder is pretty much obsolete now. Now every embark will have access to underground water, silk, magma, and !!FUN!!. You just need to dig deeper to find it all. The only thing that really matters with the embark is the shape and climate of the surface, but with the underworld so vast most dwarves will probably live their entire lives without seeing the surface.

[LordSlowpoke]

the topic starter has his point. everyone's claiming the version is bugged and just needs patching and fixing, but the truth is that any actual testers look out not only for technical bugs and features that do not work properly, but do the gameplay testing also. and no gameplay testing could be done with only "everything's great!" opinions, sometimes happen "the gameplay should be rebalanced here and there" opinions which help make game overall better. so saying there's nothing wrong except for bugs IS wrong if we want a better game after all.

frankly, what i don't like is the new site finder - exactly, that it won't allow me to look for the old familiar features like magma, bottomless pit and underground stuff. heck, it looks pretty useless now, as no matter what i do it only allows me to search for a river, which i can do singlehandedly without the stupid finder... that just does not feels right. and screw the military, i couldn't even resize the game window, while 40d* allowed that! so what i saw in the first 5 minutes of gameplay was that the new version is worse than the old one, and i really do hope it was only bugged like that, not changed like "no more resizing windows and magma pipe searching in the site finder for you forever mwahahah!"

Erm...
While I generally agree, I enjoyed 40d more than 2010, but you did something wrong.
Magma is literally everywhere, and the old underground features were scrapped in favor of <redacted>.
And I guess the finder is a placeholder just in case Toady makes something even better we can actually search for. Maybe even specific stones, or farmable land. Or if there are specific ores in there - but this part is taking away part of the fun, sure, you can notice in a few seconds that the mountain is made of marble or dolomite, or that there's sand, but ores are to be looked for. It's a part of the fun.

[G-Flex]

the topic starter has his point. everyone's claiming the version is bugged and just needs patching and fixing, but the truth is that any actual testers look out not only for technical bugs and features that do not work properly, but do the gameplay testing also. and no gameplay testing could be done with only "everything's great!" opinions, sometimes happen "the gameplay should be rebalanced here and there" opinions which help make game overall better. so saying there's nothing wrong except for bugs IS wrong if we want a better game after all.

Yes. I'm not terribly concerned about outright bugs because they tend to get picked out and squashed relatively easily. However, when it comes to stuff like the new combat, wounds, and materials, more in-depth analysis is required than what most people are willing/able to do during the course of normal gameplay. That's why I have a thread full of it, as do some other people here.

[Calhoun]

ITT:

People complain about bugs in an alpha game, which hasn't gone through numerous bugfix releases like 40d had. Which they are comparing the stability / mostly bug lackingness.

OT:
Seriously, Yeah, they're are a lot of bugs and balancing issues. And they will be dealt with.

Can anyone argue that any of the new features make the game worse? Personally i consider the almost ridicilous amount of military control a great thing. The new underground? Nothing short of Epic. Statues/figurines. Love em'! Plethora of new Creature tags / descriptors? WOW! New weapon/armor materials system. Hell Yeah! Healthcare? Genious! Burrows? OH THE POSSIBILITIES!


Seriously. It's insane. No one as any right to be disappointed at Toady, or angry, or anything.
Perhaps the biggest reason is that he provides this amazing game to humanity for the cost of $0. Sure, he get's lot's of donations, but they aren't compulsory, and it just shows how great the game is, EVEN as an unfinished product.

If you can't handle the bugs, The old version is STILL there. Just play it until we get the same amount of bugfxing that that version went through.

Toady, I just wanna say right now. Thanks. Holy shit, thanks. I can't thank you enough. Keep up the sublime work.

(I rage'd a bit, but I don't feel BAD about it.)

[Felcis]

frankly, what i don't like is the new site finder - exactly, that it won't allow me to look for the old familiar features like magma, bottomless pit and underground stuff. heck, it looks pretty useless now, as no matter what i do it only allows me to search for a river, which i can do singlehandedly without the stupid finder... that just does not feels right. and screw the military, i couldn't even resize the game window, while 40d* allowed that! so what i saw in the first 5 minutes of gameplay was that the new version is worse than the old one, and i really do hope it was only bugged like that, not changed like "no more resizing windows and magma pipe searching in the site finder for you forever mwahahah!"

AFAIK resizing will work again after the OpenGL-improvement, as it did with 40d (that should also bring improvements in FPS etc.). The side finder is okay overall, because most of those features are everywhere now, but I donīt understand why I canīt search for aboveground trees and other vegetation anymore.

I really donīt understand why so many people are complaining about them new goblins. Sure, they are a bit more badass (as they SHOULD be) and I lost my first new fort to a siege because I got neither iron nor bronze, wasnīt comfortable with the new sparring and was planning on a force of Marksdwarfes behind fortifications, which didnīt work. But in my second fort a few well trained and equipped (iron or steel) soldiers mopped the floor with large forces of enemy siegers just like in old times (one trancing speardwarf killed 15+ invaders without any help). In my opinion, training melee-fighters is even easier than before, as long as you let them do "Individual combat drill", because there is no risk of permanent injuries. Also I am glad that manually equipping dwarfs is finally possible now...no more stupid forbidding of weak equipment (or forbidding of strong weapons for sparring).

On the downside, there are 4 major bugs, that really get on my nerves so far (compared to 40d): Unkillable enemies (yeah, can really ruin an otherwise fine fortress), bugged Marksdwarfes, no fish and those damn unrotting corpses...
But I think those will be fixed in the next weeks (with the help of the new bug tracker and an army of bravely losing players), so I am really optimistic about this release and see it as a huge improvement.
Also, I like cheese and healthcare. o/

[beorn080]

I played the old 2d version. When it jumped to 3d, it was an incredible change. However, it did feel like something was missing. Yes, we had gained a massive amount, but we lost a bit too. We had lost the challenges of the depth. We have regained the challenges of the depth with DF2010. That is definitely a good thing.

As for the naysayers, the game is 31% done. I recall somewhere where Toady the Great said that the numbers represented the number of major objectives he wished to get done, and currently there are 31. Version 1, as I recall, was going to have 100 of them, and I believe he has something like 200+. I dare you to find a SINGLE GAME that is as enjoyable as Dwarf Fortress.

[NFossil]

Pointing out weaknesses is good.
Pointing out weaknesses that do not exist or have already been announced is very, very annoying.

[G-Flex]

Complaining about people pointing out weaknesses legitimately is also annoying. Not referring to you, but some other people in this thread.

Yeah, it's an "alpha release" (although I'd claim such labels are weird within the context of DF), and we knew this particular version would be relatively buggy, and so on, so that shouldn't surprise anyone. That's true. But we still should be trying to find those bugs and issues and make it clear what their level of importance/annoyance is.

[Earthquake Damage]

You're playing a FREE TO PLAY game that is an ALPHA BUILD.

Why are you complaining? 

Donations are of course welcome, but the game is completely free to play. You're complaining because you were given something for free and you don't like it.

So...don't play it? Its free. Its not like you lost anything.

No work is above criticism.

That doesn't mean all criticism deserves attention, as much of it (especially on the internet) boils down to "it sucks because I don't like it."

[Ghavrel]

You know, I've been doing a little bit of thinking aside from my frantic attempts to survive the last week and a half of college. And I think most people's reactions to DF2010 are pretty simple.

We're back at the bottom of the learning curve. Suddenly we're having to deal with what we had to deal with when we first picked up DF, and now the whole "Learning curve? More like learning CLIFF, M I RITE?!" joke is not quite as funny anymore. In two months, people will be back to laughing at newbies who come in complaining about the confusing military interface.

Yes, there are bugs. But seriously. Melting rain? Awesome. AWESOME.

[DarthCloakedDwarf]

No work is above constructive criticism.

Fixed that for ya. And emphasis.