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[Virex]

At that point I'm thinking of handing the reins to some external physics engine, which makes solids, liquids and gases behave like they have to. I also had an idea to make players collect compounds into appropriate vessels, but I can't figure out the purpose of that now.

How are you going to handle the physics? How would the game know that at room temperature, water is a liquid, while it's closest relatives, ammonia, sulfur dioxide and fluoric acid are all gases? How would the game know that making NI₃ is a really bad idea? How would it know that Potassium Iodide dissolves completely in acetone while potassium bromine doesn't? For that matter, how are you going to determine the color of things once you're done?

[Supermikhail]

I don't think I can do any better than data-basing all that info. In any case I don't want to go further than a prototype, myself. Also, mostly no reactions and compound interaction, so no Potassium Iodide in Acetone. One compound at a time. Except for hydrogen silicate and the like. So, normal conditions, normal atmosphere.

I've probably got to confess that I'm not really interested in chemistry. If I think I really can do it, I might read quantum chemistry, but currently I see that I've got to learn an awful lot, and I've got to digest it, to be able to operate this data, while the time when I won't have to look at chemical formulas ever again draws nearer.

If you can show me a source where I can find simple equations, do so please, but it appears to me that we haven't come to anything usable and runnable on an average computer or pocket pc.

[Virex]

Hey don't worry, I was just asking a few vital questions. As to the details of it, it's all pretty foggy for me too (last time I did anything related to quantum chemistry was a year ago), but I do think that it's not really likely that you're going to be able to run such computations in real time. However, your idea of making it a puzzle game means you can abstract away pretty much everything. You could work directly in the molecule viewer and do away with most of the physics. Using valency, electronegativity and some rules from organic chemistry you should be able to do a lot. The easiest level would be a one or two step synthesis in which the player has to identify where to connect the given molecules so that he gets to the goal molecule. Moderate difficulty levels could deal with reverse synthesis and multi-step reaction, while on the highest levels the player has to use real compounds which may not react as intended. You could introduce different kinds of reaction and concepts (addition, elimination, substitution, internal reconfiguration, ring flips, chirality, catalysts and probably many more) step by step in increasingly complex puzzles.


(also hydrogen silicate? Isn't that like one of the gases you don't want to get within a few hundred yards off?)

[Supermikhail]

Well, doing away with physics has to exclude that external physics, or rather, visualisation engine. Because if you keep molecule viewer only, it sort of stops being a game, and becomes a boring exercise (well, not very boring, because colors and sounds). The idea is that a person, especially a child, takes two hydrogen atoms, four oxygen atoms and a sulfur atom, makes H₂SO₄, and finds out that pure sulfuric acid is an oily transparent liquid. Well, it's at least one entertaining factor.

[Virex]

Perhaps, but the additional overhead is probably not worth it. Plus, the external viewer doesn't really add much to the game's mechanics, because sulfuric acid's oiliness doesn't impact the game, it's only an afterthought. On the other hand, seeing the H⁺ wobble off because the oxygen guzzles up the electrons of it's bond is far more interesting.

[Supermikhail]

Except it's not going to be overhead but "after-head", which means it'll start working only after the puzzle's been completed, and quite possibly take the same amount of computing power as the puzzle.

Well, H⁺ wobbling off may be interesting, but may as well be quite frustrating - "What the hell? I'm putting this thing together, and it starts wobbling off, for no reason at all." And actually, who said anything about putting everything into water, or other polar solvents... erm, assuming sulfuric acid isn't always dissociated.

But it could go along with a physical representation of a substance.

About that hydrogen silicate... If you don't know what something is called in English, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist - I meant silicic acid, and as it doesn't exist as a pure meta form, I thought it would fall apart into water and quartz after completing a puzzle.

[Virex]

Except it's not going to be overhead but "after-head", which means it'll start working only after the puzzle's been completed, and quite possibly take the same amount of computing power as the puzzle.

Well, H⁺ wobbling off may be interesting, but may as well be quite frustrating - "What the hell? I'm putting this thing together, and it starts wobbling off, for no reason at all." And actually, who said anything about putting everything into water, or other polar solvents... erm, assuming sulfuric acid isn't always dissociated.

But it could go along with a physical representation of a substance.

About that hydrogen silicate... If you don't know what something is called in English, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist - I meant silicic acid, and as it doesn't exist as a pure meta form, I thought it would fall apart into water and quartz after completing a puzzle.

I meant that it'd be a lot of overhead for you, not for the computer. Essentially you're making after-action movies using quite a complex physical simulation. It might be me, but it seems like that's a lot of work for something that doesn't really alter the game. It would be easier to just take a camcorder and film the chemicals then to simulate them.


Also, I thought you were talking about Silane instead of Silicic acid. Silane's a pretty terrifying gas with the nasty tendency to suddenly combust when exposed to oxygen...

[Supermikhail]

Well, overhead consists mostly of learning to work with an external physics engine, like OGRE (not physics, per se, but it does it) Although, you're probably right. I haven't dealt with anything like that, so... anyway I should first concentrate on the puzzle itself...

do not jinx it do not jinx it do not jinx it I can do it. I've got a goal, pretty definite at that, right? I've got a design document template.

It can't be called Chetris anymore... Well if we go with familiar brand perversion, it's more like MicroLego, now.

Game Philosophy

This game is supposed to evoke interest in chemistry. It enables the player to explore some of chemical interactions at the atom level, and then view the result of his work in the macro world with a physics simulation. The controls should be intuitive, and all the necessary information readily available and provided in an entertaining format.

Why Create This Game?

1. I haven't seen a chemistry simulation in a video game, at least in one that reached to a wide audience.

2. Because I'm suffering from random University choice, and I'd like that such a choice was clearer for more people. And so I'd like to make a game that could make people interested in chemistry early.

3. Having studied chemistry at school, and having seen the situation with student interest, I'd like to make it more interesting for students, and involve more of them.

What does the player control?

The player manipulates atoms and can attach them one to another according to chemical laws and rules.

What's the goal?

To assemble all the atoms together so they make a molecule, correct from a scientific standpoint.

Features

3D Graphics
Realistic physics. 
Customizable interface (should molecules be realistic 3D, or 3D plastered in 2D fashion?)
More to come.

Engine

Comes in two (three?) parts:

1) Visual representation, handled by an external Graphical (+Physics) Engine.

2) Underlying chemistry. During molecule assembly, the engine [while interacting with Visualisation Engine constantly] takes into account atom valency, electronegativity..., size, probably, more to come. When the initial molecule is assembled, the engine searches for it in the compound database, finds whether the compound exists, or it decomposes or turns into some other compound/s, and passes the physical data to the Visualisation Engine.


Whew. That's a start, right? From that Philosophy section I can already see it clearer in my mind. Also, technically, you can make it work for inorganic compounds with just valency and electronegativity, right? Oh, and Chrystal Field or Ligand Field for complexes, but even that's probably a tier higher than what I want for a prototype.