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[Rowanas]

I disagree. Often my friends or I will describe something as legendary when we're fairly certain that there won't be bards whipping out their parchment to note down and sing of our deeds.

[Silverionmox]

The adjectives used to describe the skill aptitude of a dwarf are a mismatched bunch. Talent, experience, social status, it's all mixed up. It should be in the same category, just a general quantification of "experienced" would serve well: that's what it describes anyway. If talent and other stuff is mixed up in it, it's better to use the various forms of "good".
Eg. Starting, Inexperienced, Trained, Average, Experienced, Expert, Veteran.

[Pilsu]

I disagree. Often my friends or I will describe something as legendary when we're fairly certain that there won't be bards whipping out their parchment to note down and sing of our deeds.

Why does it matter what you and your friends say? No dictionary recognizes it. Fame is a core component of the word. A bunch of kids misusing it doesn't suddenly change it's meaning.


As for mox, "trained" and "average" do not denote experience on any meaningful level.

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

Let me tell 'ee th' tale o' Urist McOneleg, crutch-walker o' legend...

[Caesar]

I view the 'legend' skill level as having a level of skill in your profession beyond that of what's common, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you are an actual legend.

'O course I do think it's strange you can become a master of your trade in about one or two years.

[Pickled Tink]

I'd contend that these are dwarves we are talking about. They may very well hold a special place of honour for those who have reached the pinnacle of their assigned craft, even if they are not grand tales of heroism, they would probably be tales of inspiration to other dwarves, particularly children. "When I grow up I want to be just like Iden, the dwarf who come clowns or flooding water, goblins or elves, would dwarf that pump and keep going, ensuring that the vital magma traps would remain operating after the the Titan Zosto Wonderbook destroyed our windmills. What a reliable dwarf"

Or "How about that Ast Masfolegen? When his legs were smashed by the goblins, did he sit about in bed moping? No, he got up, and despite his wounds he paraded through the fortress, contributing instead of sitting down and doing nothing, so get out of bed you lazy dwarf and get back to work. It's only a cut ear!"

You don't need a great epic for inspirational tales to be told. Some of them can be ordinary heroism or excellence.

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

Although everything is better in lengthy saga form.

[Pilsu]

Or "How about that Ast Masfolegen? When his legs were smashed by the goblins, did he sit about in bed moping? No, he got up, and despite his wounds he paraded through the fortress, contributing instead of sitting down and doing nothing, so get out of bed you lazy dwarf and get back to work. It's only a cut ear!"

You don't need a great epic for inspirational tales to be told. Some of them can be ordinary heroism or excellence.

What do these even have to do with skill levels? Are you arguing that legendary as a skill rank should be entirely abolished, not just for milling and other spam skills?

[Neonivek]

We may eventually need measures of skill level beyond legendary for characters such as gods or demihumans.

[h3lblad3]

We may eventually need measures of skill level beyond legendary for demihumans.

Dwarves?

[Silverionmox]

As for mox, "trained" and "average" do not denote experience on any meaningful level.

Yep, scrap them. Maybe it's better to scrap the discrete indicators of a continuous value altogether, and then skill could be displayed with a 0-255 scale of black to white or something. That's both fine-grained and easily recognizable, even for the colour-blind.

[Pickled Tink]

Or "How about that Ast Masfolegen? When his legs were smashed by the goblins, did he sit about in bed moping? No, he got up, and despite his wounds he paraded through the fortress, contributing instead of sitting down and doing nothing, so get out of bed you lazy dwarf and get back to work. It's only a cut ear!"

You don't need a great epic for inspirational tales to be told. Some of them can be ordinary heroism or excellence.

What do these even have to do with skill levels? Are you arguing that legendary as a skill rank should be entirely abolished, not just for milling and other spam skills?

Quite the opposite. I don't think any change is needed, and I was pointing this out by showing that a "legend" doesn't need to be the great heroic epic as some people here seem think they should be.

[Pilsu]

Quite the opposite. I don't think any change is needed, and I was pointing this out by showing that a "legend" doesn't need to be the great heroic epic as some people here seem think they should be.

You didn't point out anything of the sort, and even if you had, you completely failed to show why something called "legendary" wouldn't be the stuff of legends. Other than some bullheaded determination to have your way with the vernacular.

In fact, you specifically pointed out that a dwarf could have tales told of him even if he isn't masterful in the task he's famed for. That if anything is an argument against having "legendary" as a skill rank.

[Caesar]

I still think a better argument to keeping 'legendary' would be the fact that they have reached skill levels that are 'legendary' compared to the average.

Of course, you could also just name it something more awesome than 'High Master'.

I think it should be a level of skill that's very difficult to reach.

Besides, if you'd scrap 'legendary', don't do it for one skill, just do it for all.

[Jar of Jam]

I suppose even musicians.

Speaking of which, DF has instruments, but where are the musicians ? Imagine a dorf folk festival or an underground ( pardon the pun ) punk scene.