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[THLawrence]

I know have different planes of reality is in the logs but what I want to know is what are everyone's opinions on how they should go. Personally I was thinking something like this:

Fire     Ice
Earth    Air
Light    Darkness
Law      Order
Creation Destruction
Life     Death
Seven Planes of Hell
Seven Planes of Heaven
Astral Plane
[YOUR_WORLD_NAME_HERE]

The first 4 are obvious. They are the basic elements. The law and order planer axis is because I am a fan of DND. In the plane of Order laws uphold everything. In the plane of chaos there is no laws or control. The essence of chaos. Life and death, creation and destruction and light and darkness are more obvious.

Heaven and hell would each have 7 planes corresponding to the seven deadly sins and the seven holy virtues.

The astral plane interconnects all of them.

A better explanation of the interaction is there are 2 planes on each planer axis. The 2 planes are the opposites of each other. Ex. Fire and Ice are on the same planer axis. Each plane is the basic essence of whatever it is. Nothing else exists there.

Anyway what are your ideas on the different planes?

[Capntastic]

I'd rather they be procedurally generated rather than ripped from D&D.

[Captain Mayday]

I'm not a big fan of that sort of planes stuff anyway. If we were going to have Planes, why not a series of alternate dimensions, using the same landscape and simply mixing up details like temperature, vegetation, and good/evil?

[PTTG??]

I understand that it is a longer-term goal to add "planes" of some kind or another to DF, but most likely they would be random planes, such as "the Glowing Plane of Eternal Flimsy Paper" or what have you. It's in the Cores... somewhere...

[Karlito]

Its under the world gen arc.  Hopefully we'll have control over  what goes into them.

[Draco18s]

Because I feel compeled to ask...

Which 7 holy virtues?

[Karlito]

These ones, I would guess.

[Aquillion]

Boo.  Those suggestions are from D&D, and weren't very original or interesting even there.  They aren't Dwarf-Fortress like.  The four-elements system is overplayed, and isn't very Dwarf Fortress-ish.  If you're going to use a silly classical element system, why not use the five Wu Xing elements instead, or some other ancient belief that hasn't been so horribly, pathetically overplayed?

The law-order axis is even sillier.  Where has Dwarf Fortress referred to law and order as rigid supernatural concepts?  There is a sort of 'good' and 'evil', but it's expressed more as the difference between calmness and terror...  it doesn't exactly fit on the D&D axis system.

Heaven and Hell make no sense at all.  They're from a belief system that doesn't have anything to do with Dwarf Fortress at all.

...er, I don't mean to be too harsh.  But I think we should wait until Dwarf Fortress actually has a magic system and a system of metaphysics before we start trying to think up what its metaphysical planes should be.  Otherwise you end up just copying the metaphysics of D&D and Final Fantasy and so forth...  which is what you did.

[ December 21, 2007: Message edited by: Aquillion ]

[Align]

and what would be the function of these planes?

[puffs]

quote:Originally posted by Align:
<STRONG>and what would be the function of these planes?</STRONG>

A taxi service for adventurers!

[Captain Failmore]

I agree that we should wait until we're absolutely sure what effects metaphysics will have on the game before we start tooling around with alternate universes. As I understood it, that was the whole idea of the planes bit anyway, to basically give the player an excuse to screw with the rules and create worlds more finely tuned to their wants and needs and possibly travel between or interact with these planes in a purposeful manner.

The Dungeons and Dragons bit along with the whole four-corners elemental shtick is a passable source of inspiration, but I don't personally feel it should be ripped wholesale from the Dungeons and Dragons manual and thrown haphazardly into the Dwarf Fortress world. Not only is it entirely overdone, it's needlessly restrictive. Why should we even stop at four elements, for that matter? A game I was penning had ten, each with their own specific behaviors and utility as opposed to existing just to replace a marksman's arrows with fireballs and make close-combat fighters look silly. I'd really much rather the metaphysics in Dwarf Fortress be much more abstract than what the Dungeons and Dragons manual allows, for better or worse.

[Wooty]

It's a fortress... with dwarves.

Want a FIREPLANELAWLS? Go to the raw entrys on magama creatures, red sand, and magma....

I don't see the point in having any other "plane" "reality" or "dimension" than what we have now. Light plane? Whoopdedoo all your dwarves get to throw up every five minutes. Dark plane? Whoopededoo now they cant see. Choas plane? Whoopdedoo everything explodes. This isn't even a suggestion, it's just a list of "planes" and tells  me that "x and x are on the same axis".

Sorry, I just hate anything to do with magic, planes, or cheesy elemental fire and ice.

[ December 21, 2007: Message edited by: Wooty ]

[Yourself]

quote:Why should we even stop at four elements

Yeah.  Why not have, say, 94?  I even have ideas for names!

[ December 21, 2007: Message edited by: Yourself ]

[Captain Failmore]

quote:Originally posted by Yourself:
<STRONG>

Yeah.  Why not have, say, 94?  I even have ideas for names!

[ December 21, 2007: Message edited by: Yourself ]</STRONG>

'Teledildonics' is not an element.

[Aquillion]

quote:Originally posted by Wooty:
<STRONG>It's a fortress... with dwarves.</STRONG>

In the long run, the game is not intended to only focus on dwarf fortresses.  For the long-term features we're talking about, the game is eventually intended to have a human town mode, an elf glade mode, a wizard tower mode, and many more.  (By that point, I suppose it might be Slaves to Armok Chapter III).

Dwarves probably aren't going to have much to do with other planes, no, but eventually the game isn't going to be about dwarves exclusively.