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YES! (i would use it)

NO! (i would not use it, and i think it is pointless/unethical/gross etc.)

yes, but i would dissable it if it was an init option (all yes voters are assumed to be for an init option, only vote here if you think it should be included but you would not use it)

[Tenebrais]

I do recall seeing a few times that Toady One has said that he wouldn't add sewage to the game unless there is a productive reason to do so. Like, for example, all these waterworks and waste management challenges. I haven't heard any comment from him since on the matter; he probably has more pressing things to consider.

[lucusLoC]

@ deathworks

duly noted. OP updated.

[father_alexander]

Let me stress again that I do consider it an interesting addition that makes sense for the game and would be an enrichment. It is just that I feel the damage that will be done in its environment outweighs the benefit in that case.

Deathworks

The thing is this can happen with tons and tons of stuff, vomit, sex if its added, it already kinda happens with violence, hell as far as we know it could happen with racism now that we actually have the chance.

I think its the fact that we are used to the whole killing elves and burning people with magma that makes us not notice, but its in fact quite dark, i remember finding the whole idea of killing my own dwarves kinda dark at the start. Sure there will be some jokes about it, but i really doubt we need to avoid what can be a REALLY important subject wen it comes to urban design, just because of the risks that we are taking with almost anything else, that we only allow because that we are already used to violence in the game.

I also think that those posts with jokes about feces are kinda like the face palm joke one, since they are not common wen you get one, they grow more than usual, in the regular use of jokes about that i think it will get fixed on its own, mostly because of the rejection they will get from other users, while most of us can make a shit joke every once in a while, you rarely find someone that makes them ALL the time, for one simple reason, its not funny, and since its not funny, while some of us might like to torture some elves by droping them on a pit of feces, i doubt we will use it as magma because the rest of the members will hate us for doing that.

That said i think there are many ways of introducing the general concept without needing to ever mention feces, you simply make a building called "bath" with access to water in wich the dwarves take a bath and you get some sort of dirty or contaminated water, those that like the idea of feces can think of it as the dwarves using the bath for both feces and washing while those that dont like it have nothing bothering them, since its them just washing, and it should please all of us that would like to build a sewage system and take care of that sort of problem.

[Zangi]

Eh, can't be arsed to read +10 pages of stuff.

And yea, I'm still going to say, your polling options are stacked in a way that favors yes.  Considering that you are counting the 3rd option equally as another yes.

[lucusLoC]

@Zangi

how can you make that statement if you have not read the whole thread? i have stated before that i do not. they are people who said "yes it should be included, no i will not use it." how is that hard to grasp? again, do you think i should have included a "no, but i would use it"? that would be the balancing option, and i am sure it would take away from your no votes more than any other. it is in this way, as stated many time before, that this vote is biased toward "no" if it is biased at all, since all no votes are assumed to be "will not use" even if they are not.

you are making an uniformed and reactionary statement, without looking into the available facts. you are also refusing to support your argument. please take a critical reasoning class (or at least read the wikipedia article on the subject) before your  next post, so that you can understand why you are wrong.

[Djohaal]

First the vote is unbiased. This is not a random-choice poll, and the argument is pure phallacy.

Second if in your limited little world you can't possibly relate disease outbreaks to sewage management you need to read some stuff about urban saniation.

Third, toady did mention manure and urine as sources of possible future gunpowder in the latest DFtalk, so at least animal dejects are not out of his scope.

Fourth, it can't be stressed more that DF's AI will need to be improved so dwarves are to manage their bowel movements properly. As it currently is with contaminants it'd be a pure chaos, but as their AI itself improves progressively it will become far more feasible. A fun use for a sewer system would be "sink" buildings that could run with buckets (or maybe a clean water source beside them) and that would clean the dwarf and drop the contaminants on the sewer below them...

Fifth: my black and white insignia has been pulled out in favor of acid sarcasm.

[Morrigi]

I'm all for having it as an init option, and I think adding sewage would be another fun challenge to the game, and, as other people have said, would give one a place to dump the rotten corpses, blood, vomit, etc. somewhere safely out of your fortress. Also, I do not see how the vote could be considered biased without using logic similar to FOX News.

[lucusLoC]

morrigi, please keep politics to the general discussion forums. they do not belong here.

if you want to start a (civil) political discussion start a thread there and send me a PM with the link.

[Urist McDepravity]

One strange thing in this thread is how all these zealots on their crusade against poop quote Toady the Great saying "there shall be no shit" but noone has has a link there. I couldn't find it with search.

Well, because he definitely said something like that about either feces or sex/genitalia. It was forum post, IIRC. Someone should volonteer to look through all his posts for last 2 years and write down everything he said about the subject.

But, in the same time, IIRC, he said that he WILL implement sewage at some point. Just for stealth/thief missions in adventure mode.
So i guess there WILL be some kind of waste-management to fill these sewages. And I'm personally happy enough with that even if waste stays generic, instead of "Cubic meter of Urist's shit, Cubic meter of Urist's urine, Cubic meter of goblin McGoblin's blood, ... x 10000"

[Morrigi]

morrigi, please keep politics to the general discussion forums. they do not belong here.

if you want to start a (civil) political discussion start a thread there and send me a PM with the link.

Yes, Lord.

[CJ1145]

So what, what's this? Asking if we should add fecal matter to DF? With all due respect, my dwarves are currently covered in vomit, snow, water, mud, blood, their own blood, magic blood, elf blood, and honey. I don't need another layer on top of all that.

No thanks.

[thvaz]

There is sensible ways to add sewage in the game. When dwarves clean themselves properly, I would like to designate a sewer system.

How to avoid the feces-throwing monkeys who may play this game? Well, someone will have to clean the result of these "oh-so-funny" traps, and it would certainly be the dwarves of said monkey. They shouldn't be happy in doing so, and would gladly bring the fortress down in a tantrum spiral.

[Urist McDepravity]

So what, what's this? Asking if we should add fecal matter to DF? With all due respect, my dwarves are currently covered in vomit, snow, water, mud, blood, their own blood, magic blood, elf blood, and honey. I don't need another layer on top of all that.

No, its asking if we should add proper way to manage all this waste. So they will wash off all these layers of stuff along with other byproducts down to sewages.
Adding defecation alone w/out according waste management features would be counter-productive.

[CJ1145]

That sounds like a plan, but I still don't feel the need to add feces to begin with. Unless you're planning a particularly disgusting Megaproject I don't see why it would be needed.

[Djohaal]

For the sheer joy of building the sewage system itself. And the fact dwarven cities would (realistically) need it.