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YES! (i would use it)

NO! (i would not use it, and i think it is pointless/unethical/gross etc.)

yes, but i would dissable it if it was an init option (all yes voters are assumed to be for an init option, only vote here if you think it should be included but you would not use it)

[Grakelin]

No, this is a shitty idea.

*rimshot*

[GRead]

Me too, Vattic.

Also...

I'm not against it philosophically or ethically, but I don't think the current system could handle it.

...

Once the fundamental systems of DF have caught up to the point where fecal matter is actually feasible, it should be modded in. Hell, if it doesn't wreck the framerate too terribly, I may give it a shot myself. But until then I just don't think it's worth the trouble, and I definitely don't think it should be in vanilla.

So, why is that a "no"?  Who says it would be implemented now?

The key phrases there are "should be modded in" and "definitely don't think it should be in vanilla."

The suggestion is for feces to be added to the game. I definitely think people who want feces should be able to mod them in, but I don't think they are a good idea for vanilla DF, init option or no. Therefore I voted no, I don't think Toady should add them to DF, and I don't think they are something that should be considered while planning systems. They should be something for modders to add once the basic systems would support it.

[Ilmoran]

The key phrases there are "should be modded in" and "definitely don't think it should be in vanilla."

The suggestion is for feces to be added to the game. I definitely think people who want feces should be able to mod them in, but I don't think they are a good idea for vanilla DF, init option or no. Therefore I voted no, I don't think Toady should add them to DF, and I don't think they are something that should be considered while planning systems. They should be something for modders to add once the basic systems would support it.

Unless a system for having creatures automatically generate secretions is created, it's not likely it will be able to be modded in.

[lucusLoC]

it's not just modded in secretions either, it's behavioral. creatures with secretions need to be able to know what to do with those secretions, and when. look at the issues in this version with the wells covered in gunk. creatures need to be aware that they need to clean away from the drinking water, and when they need to excrete something there is an activity zone/building for that. this needs to be further refined to the point that creatures need to know where to go to deal with various excretions or just general filth. going to the loo building to wash off grime rather than going to the bath house would be odd, and going to the bathhouse to have a poo instead of the loo would likewise be wrong. various cleaning jobs would need to have specific activity zones they could be linked to (this would also benefit the industrial waste vs. organic waste problem as well, and would allow players to mod in and deal with toxic waste etc.).  there is an awful lot that needs to be made available to get this to work.

[Andeerz]

There is an awful lot that needs to be made available to get this to work.

I agree.  And I'm banking on that... *fingers crossed*

[lucusLoC]

my only issue with the "just mod it in" crowd is that the mechanics still need to be in the game for it to be modable. if you are going to go through all the work to give modders the ability to make it work you might as well just put it in the game and link it to an ini option. modders them would be free to expand on the mechanic and do as they wish with it.

[Ilmoran]

Heh, in fact, if they give all the tools to make it moddable, instead of just putting it in, then you know what's going to happen?  People are going to mod other materials to come out.  There will be dwarves who poop solid gold.  Or microcline.

[lucusLoC]

this is true. how is that a problem? ;-)

[Farmerbob]

  You do not need to be crude about including feces.  Just have a designated area "Fertilizer pit" and have dwarves be required to visit after every third meal or so.  If you don't have a fertilizer pit, your dwarves occasionally go outside and "heed the call of nature"

  There is already a cleaning job in the game, occasionally dwarves would need to clean floors in designated animal areas.  If you don't have designated animal areas, animals would go outside, unless trapped or chained, in which case you might have piles of fertilizer to clean around cages and chains.  Make the cleanup quick.  Piles of fertilizer outdoors should rot quickly.

  I can see it working without needing to implement large volumetric piles of poo, or lots of crudity.  Planters with access to a fertilizer pit would grow food faster or get bonuses from allowing fields to go fallow, whatever.


  Perhaps insect corpses could be moved from refuse to fertilizer when they start to rot - it would reduce the annoying buildup of never-rotting bugs.

[qwertyuiopas]

For those who say "No, but let us mod it in", how about this:
"Yes, but put it in the raws"

It would be identical, but added(and disabled?) by default. The point is that if Toady One has a goal of adding it, he will have a reason to work on related raws much sooner rather than waiting to DF 2.847 to finally add some critical raw option.

Bonus: If the raws can specify custom disableable init options...

[DalGren]

For me the "overflowing forums with shit trap threads" excuse is just a half-baked lame excuse for people being impeded by their own repressoins and taboos about a doubtlessly bothersome (if not awkward), but nevertheless absurdly relevant aspect of life. 

You know most of those taboos and repressions are cultural and therefore not something you can just ignore because, heck, people is raised with them? Or, you know, people doesn't *want* to get rid of them?
2D forts would be quite impossible as well (I can only imagine a sewage system going on a lower z-level, connecting to residential and working areas and leading to a river or magma or some stinkhole), and the level of management and objects would put additional stress on both the players and the game. Also depending on implementation it might hinder "vertical apartment style" housing (or not).
I think this should be moddable in, but not part of vanilla. Perhaps linked to syndromes, having creatures drop pools of poison, that can be modded into feces if modders desire so.

[Vercingetorix]

So dwarves would now smell like blood, death, booze...and feces.

Gets my vote.

[AtomicPaperclip]

For some forts it would be fun to design a nice bathroom system but other times I'd rather not deal with it. 3rd op.

[Vester]

Speaking of the options, I'm still wondering how poop can be unethical.

[qwertyuiopas]

Probably just the uses of it that are usually mentioned within massive implied sarcasm tags that a few people seem unable to infer the existance of.